Jump to content

20 Vartarg


Big Al

Recommended Posts

I know a guys that shoots one and gets on well with it, just a milder .20 caliber cartridge that loves zipping 32 grain bullets out at around 3700 ftps.

 

Steve Kershaw also shoots one with excellent results.

 

Are you thinking about adding one to your .20 cal collection Al?

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im developing a case for the 20's Steve, they do what I want so dont really need anything bigger.

 

Im still looking for that lightweight carry/truck gun with a light stock and lightweight 18-20" barrel but with decent performance, the kind of rifle I wanted an HMR to be but never was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im developing a case for the 20's Steve, they do what I want so dont really need anything bigger.

 

Im still looking for that lightweight carry/truck gun with a light stock and lightweight 18-20" barrel but with decent performance, the kind of rifle I wanted an HMR to be but never was.

 

Al, what do you mean about developing a case matey???.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im developing a case for the 20's Steve, they do what I want so dont really need anything bigger.

 

Im still looking for that lightweight carry/truck gun with a light stock and lightweight 18-20" barrel but with decent performance, the kind of rifle I wanted an HMR to be but never was.

I've often thought that a .221 Fireball would make a handy truck gun and perform far better than say a 17 HMR or 22 Hornet. As the round was originally developed for the XP-100 pistol, it will perform really well out of a short 12-14 inch barrel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

221Fireball: Nosler 40g BT commercial load 10.5 barrel:

 

Muzzle 3200fps 200y drop/drift10 mph 0/5.4;300y 8/13;400y 25/26 inches. (222 24" :Muzzle 3350;200y 0/5;300y 7/12.5; 400y 22/24

 

Not too shabby-though just what it might offer over a 222rem is not performance-how can it as a shortened 222 case?

As a short handy truck 250 rifle,beats the pants off the 22 hornet/HMR.

gbal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Al,

I've got a CZ 527 that started life as a 221 F/B, which I had restocked and rebarrelled to a 20 VarTarg by Neil McKillop. Superb work as always from a top guy.

 

It has a 1:11 Pacnor barrel cut to 22" which allows me to get 35g Bergers to around 3520 fps. I tried several faster powders that I used in the FB but settled on N130, I couldn't get anywhere near the velocities that Todd Kindler was getting but never really needed them anyway.

It's a fantastic little round which I use with either a D760 or a day scope, I never used it past about 220 yards but given the chance and under the right conditions I wouldn't hesitate to push it further. I was dubious about the Bergers to start with, trying to get the 32g VM's and BK's to shoot but I could never match the Berger's edge on accuracy. They have been outstanding on fox too.

I use 223 brass which I run through a couple of form dies to get near perfect VarTarg brass with a little case trimming etc, the worst part is the neck turning. But I can use better quality brass than was previously available, but I believe Lapua? make it now.

If you decide to go the VT route your more than welcome to use the form dies.

HTH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I Have been using the .20 VarTarg for about 2 years now all work was done by Steve Kershaw.

 

Originally it started out as a Remington .17 Fireball.

It now has a 23" Lother Walther barrel with 1 in 12 twist it's fitted with a jewel trigger & sits in a Boyd TH stock.

 

Using N-130 & 32gr V-Max it gives me 3550ft/sec & if I do my part it will shoot inside 1/2" at 100 yards.

Have tried N-120 witch gave me 3750 ft/sec but not as good accuracy just over 1" at 100 yards.

I use Remington .221 Fireball brass but have got a case of .221 Lapua sitting in the garage just waiting on some spare time to get started on them.

 

Furthest shot to date was 350 yards but regularly pick of crows at over 200 yards.

 

Cheers

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Al,

I've got a CZ 527 that started life as a 221 F/B, which I had restocked and rebarrelled to a 20 VarTarg by Neil McKillop. Superb work as always from a top guy.

 

It has a 1:11 Pacnor barrel cut to 22" which allows me to get 35g Bergers to around 3520 fps. I tried several faster powders that I used in the FB but settled on N130, I couldn't get anywhere near the velocities that Todd Kindler was getting but never really needed them anyway.

It's a fantastic little round which I use with either a D760 or a day scope, I never used it past about 220 yards but given the chance and under the right conditions I wouldn't hesitate to push it further. I was dubious about the Bergers to start with, trying to get the 32g VM's and BK's to shoot but I could never match the Berger's edge on accuracy. They have been outstanding on fox too.

I use 223 brass which I run through a couple of form dies to get near perfect VarTarg brass with a little case trimming etc, the worst part is the neck turning. But I can use better quality brass than was previously available, but I believe Lapua? make it now.

If you decide to go the VT route your more than welcome to use the form dies.

HTH

 

 

Todd's loads are known to be very hot generally, barrels are cheap out there as well !!.

 

A

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i always thought that the 17 Hornet should have been the "20 Hornet"

 

 

17 Hornet is a nice round in its place, I think for a 20 cal then a shade more case capacity is called for and 20VT is the ideal small case 20 Cal. That will then allow you to throw a 32 gr at 3500fps, a Hornet case would struggle to get a 20 cal 32gr much above 2800 I suspect.

 

A

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

17 Hornet is a nice round in its place, I think for a 20 cal then a shade more case capacity is called for and 20VT is the ideal small case 20 Cal. That will then allow you to throw a 32 gr at 3500fps, a Hornet case would struggle to get a 20 cal 32gr much above 2800 I suspect.

 

A

I would have thought a higher velocity than 2800 would be achieved, as in .22 form it will push a 40gn vmax along at 3100+ using lilgun powder. and in K Hornet form with a proper shoulder, I am achieving 3150 comfortably with a 40gn vmax and 13.4 gns lilgun

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum was a pretty hot rf in 1968 (30 g @2300,with 150y drop/ drift of 3.2/7.4,which is near identical to 17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire with 20g bullet.

 

But the Remington was soon dropped.

In 2007 Aguila had plans for a 30g@ 2300 version-but......

 

The Fireball case seems the way better option for a cartridge in this somewhat limited niche.At least it won't split,and gives better performance;As Alycidon notes, the 20Vartag is a strong contemder.

 

gbal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good morning from the U.S.,

New to the forum, this is my first post.

I have been shooting the 20 caliber cartridges for approx. 14 years, cannot say enough good about these. I do not own the 20 Vartarg but do shoot the 20 Tac, 204 Ruger and a 20 BR - own a couple of 221 FB in Cooper rifles. The 20 cal are great varmint cartridges -accuracy and the ability to see your hits through the scope.

I am not sure how well known "Todd Kindler" is in your parts - Todd owns a shop in Baltic, Ohio called the "Woodchuck Den" he is the author of a loading manual called "Terrific Twenties" and the creator of the 20 Vartarg, 20 Vartag Turbo, 20 Tac and several others. I know Todd and he is the go to source of credible load data, custom bullets and loading equipment for the 20 cal.

I shoot the 20 Tac a lot and find it to be very accurate and capable of dispatching our groundhog (usually about 10-12 pound size varmint) with ease - the longest kill shot to date is 707 yards. This was accomplished with a Nosler 40 BT at 3800 fps.

Enough of my rambling,

Denny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't get anywhere near the velocities that Todd Kindler was getting

 

Don't lose any sleep over that. I've tried chasing Todd's claimed velocities in several calibres over the years and can only conclude that his chronograph is broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the welcome Maximus Otter - I have enjoyed (obsessed) this sport most of my life - I Really enjoy the small cartridges and this forum seems to cover the spectrum.

Take care,

Denny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have thought a higher velocity than 2800 would be achieved, as in .22 form it will push a 40gn vmax along at 3100+ using lilgun powder. and in K Hornet form with a proper shoulder, I am achieving 3150 comfortably with a 40gn vmax and 13.4 gns lilgun

 

 

You could well be right, I have no hands on experience of 20 Hornet in any guise.

 

A

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

You could well be right, I have no hands on experience of 20 Hornet in any guise.

 

A

Neither do i, But if someone had necked a Hornet case down to .20 cal i would have thought the velocities to be mid way between the .22 K Hornet (3100-3200 with 40gn vmax) and the .17 hornet around 3500 ish? a ,20 cal 32gn bullet traveling at @ 3300 would be a fairly handy little round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good morning from the U.S.,

New to the forum, this is my first post.

I have been shooting the 20 caliber cartridges for approx. 14 years, cannot say enough good about these. I do not own the 20 Vartarg but do shoot the 20 Tac, 204 Ruger and a 20 BR - own a couple of 221 FB in Cooper rifles. The 20 cal are great varmint cartridges -accuracy and the ability to see your hits through the scope.

I am not sure how well known "Todd Kindler" is in your parts - Todd owns a shop in Baltic, Ohio called the "Woodchuck Den" he is the author of a loading manual called "Terrific Twenties" and the creator of the 20 Vartarg, 20 Vartag Turbo, 20 Tac and several others. I know Todd and he is the go to source of credible load data, custom bullets and loading equipment for the 20 cal.

I shoot the 20 Tac a lot and find it to be very accurate and capable of dispatching our groundhog (usually about 10-12 pound size varmint) with ease - the longest kill shot to date is 707 yards. This was accomplished with a Nosler 40 BT at 3800 fps.

Enough of my rambling,

Denny

 

 

Hi and welcome to the forum,

 

There are a bunch of us here who shoot 20s but not to many, most of those that have discovered the 20 cal benefits use 204R and Tac or Prac 20, I am aware of 1 Vartarg Turbo and one standard Vartarg. My 20BR was the first seen by our second largest proof house.

 

One of the issues we have is a legal one, we have to justify each weapon on renewal of our certificates every 5 years and duplication of even similar calibers takes a bit of justifying to the powers that be. Ammunition (if expanding) is registered onto our certificates and if we dont use enough ammo then you are tempting the removal of authority for that rifle. As a result rifle ownership per head tend to be one rimfire, one small caliber centerfire, usually 222/223/22.250 and if stalking deer one or maybe two rifles of a 6mm or larger caliber. Largest caliber we are normally allowed for sporting purposes is 30.06 although I think there are a few larger ones about for wild boar. Hence we are a fairly conservative lot, tending to stick with whats known, but some of us reading the excellent US forums such as Saubier have got stuck into wildcats. Friend of mine built a 17M4, then rebarreld it down to 14 Walker, then sold it. he is currently looking at building an 18 Caliber. All mine are wildcats except the 22LR which is an AMT. Many members here also shoot wildcats for preference but while costs from specialists builders have come down over the last few years thanks to the far wider choice of builders rifle prices here are at least double what they are in the USA.

 

Todd helped me massively when I built my 20BR ten years ago, he supplied all the reloading dies etc for it. He is known to 20 cal people here but has probably not had the recognition he deserves. Shame his Small Caliber News fell victim to the economic recession. I still have copies and regularly re read them.

 

Main targets here for 20 cals are foxes and long range crows and magpies. Disease and birds of prey have all but wiped out our previously abundant rabbit population. Not to often we get out to 400 yards plus, we live in a crowded island and are always looking at what is and what is not a safe shot especially when members of the general public can pop up anywhere at anytime. Well done on the 707 yard shot, thats a shot of a lifetime.

 

I saw another note here of someone trying to emulate Todds velocities, he is known even in the US to produce some very hot loads. Personally I am happy 400fps below his working loads in both 17AH and 20BR, they kill well and are accurate.

 

A

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy