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17 Hornet. Good rabbit gun ?


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First one was front on bib shot about 80 yards off the wingmirror of the Disco in daylight. Had just shot a crow at a similar distance and half an hour later I killed another crow at that range. I suspect the bullet hit the breastbone and broke up on impact.

 

Second one was 200 yards again in daylight, it was sitting up on its rear quarters, steep downhill, zero is 160 yards, went for a head shot as it was perfectly still. It went down then dragged itself into a large overgrown 3 way ditch complex. That was really to far for the combination and the target, the previous evening I had killed a vixen with a 6mm that had been taking lambs, this was 5am the next morning on the Larsen trap round a couple of fields away. Should have taken a bigger rifle.

 

I have read that the 25gr Berger is far more effective on Fox but I suspect using it on crows etc will lead to pass throughs.

 

Have killed another couple at 150 yards with 20gr Vmax, on both occasions I thought that a stopper would be needed but by the time I had got one in they had both died.

 

A

 

Thanks A

 

It sounds like it would be an excellent caliber for corvids, and a good step up from hmr, but the results on fox are disappointing to say the least.

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Is that 25gr v max or 25gr Bergers?

I have used both in my 17FB and got runners with the Bergers. VV accurate and they ran no more than 70 yards or so but VMax are more effective at knocking them down. I prefer to use my 204 for Foxes and keep the 17FB for Crows.

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I've had 5 foxes with my 17 Hornet. 4 with 20gr V-Max and one recently with 25gr V-Max at 10yds! (almost could have stabbed it I called it in that close!)

 

First two with 20gr V-Max dropped stone dead - one at 120yds, one at 140yds side on. good exit wound on second one!

 

Third one (20gr V-Max) hit part front on at around 100yds and it ran a few paces before sliding to a halt, dead. I noticed a large splash wound on the entry point but enough debris had managed to take out the vitals.

 

Fourth one (20gr V-Max) front on, sitting facing me, smack centre of chest at 80yds dropped dead instantly

 

fifth one (25gr V-Max) called in to 10yds and hit dead centre of chest. stone dead and one hell of a thump when hit! It rattled a bit but couldn't find an entrance or exit wound.

 

In my experience I'd much rather the 25gr V-Max on foxes but certainly wouldn't be pushing beyond 150-200yds as a max range. I'd rather know that bullet is going to hit where I aim and have enough clout to take it down effectively. sure,, there are more effective calibres but the Hornet sure does sting 'em!

 

Sam

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The caliber is ideal for corvids with no pass through at 70 yards on a maggi recently using 20gr Vmax. But if fox is likely to be the main item on the agenda take a 20 cal or bigger. I carry the 17AH on my trap round, March - July or Aug, might come across an odd inquisitive cub around a Larsen especially on a misty morning so a 25gr should take care of them but 200 yards is a hell of a long way for a big thing like a fox. Furthest I have picked one up at is 150 yards, big cub, front on bib shot downhill, it looked far from dead when hit but it only went 20 yards. A 20 would have dropped it on the spot with no issues at all.

 

A

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The caliber is ideal for corvids with no pass through at 70 yards on a maggi recently using 20gr Vmax. But if fox is likely to be the main item on the agenda, take a 20 cal or bigger.

 

A

 

 

With respect A , the 17 hornet may ( in your opinion) not be a good choice for fox. But don't think that the diminutive 17 Hornet is representative of other larger cased 17 cal centre fires. They are very very different animals indeed.

 

The 17 rem can achieve velocity's of over 4100 fps (with a 25 grn Vmax) , or 4460 fps with a 20 grn bullet, It is a very potent little round and I can assure you , it puts fox own hard, and permanently.

Personally, I have shot many fox at ranges between 250 yrds - to 330 yrds and ALL, have folded on the spot.

 

Ballistically - the 17 rem has more hitting power at 350 yrds than the 17 H has at 150 yrds

 

Here is a good read regarding the interesting 17 Predator calibre - See the video regarding Coyote shooting with a 17 CF then tell me you need a 20 cal :ph34r:

 

 

http://www.rmvh.com/17%20Predator%20-%20In%20The%20Field.htm

 

 

Kind regards

S

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With respect A , the 17 hornet may ( in your opinion) not be a good choice for fox. But don't think that the diminutive 17 Hornet is representative of other larger cased 17 cal centre fires. They are very very different animals indeed.

 

The 17 rem can achieve velocity's of over 4100 fps (with a 25 grn Vmax) , or 4460 fps with a 20 grn bullet, It is a very potent little round and I can assure you , it puts fox own hard, and permanently.

Personally, I have shot many fox at ranges between 250 yrds - to 330 yrds and ALL, have folded on the spot.

 

Ballistically - the 17 rem has more hitting power at 350 yrds than the 17 H has at 150 yrds

 

Here is a good read regarding the interesting 17 Predator calibre - See the video regarding Coyote shooting with a 17 CF then tell me you need a 20 cal :ph34r:

 

 

http://www.rmvh.com/17%20Predator%20-%20In%20The%20Field.htm

 

 

Kind regards

S

 

 

Totally agree, 17 Fireball, 17M4 and 17 Rem with 25gr bullets or bigger are perfectly fine but these days they are getting a bit thin on the ground. That 17 Predator seems a good cartridge but I could not open the vid to see it in action. Would expect a very short barrel life though.

 

A

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OK.What is needed is enough ft lb of energy,with an appropriate bullet,so that the energy is delivered where it can have terminal effect.Different cartridges may/not meet the requirement,and will fall below it at different ranges (22rf is the obvious minimal,though it is a 223 calibre.) Bullet is a factor too,weight and construction-they vary-and small varmint bullets become marginal for fox sooner,mainly poor penetration.

Of course some x calbre are better than some y calibre ,even where x is smaller than y,but generally calibre and effect correlate.Not many 7mm would be underpowerd for 100y fox.

I think we know what is meant ,though there are exceptions-both ways-the key point is 'use enough gun'-or strictly,cartridge. Occasional success with an inappropriate cartridge is just that-and should not define what is acceptable.The appropriate cartridges seldom fail,and that is the criterion. (however impressive Dave's zebra at 700 yards was with the 17 HMR,another zebra in that neck of the woods is unlikely,so we will never know for sure.) :-)

 

gbal

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Totally agree, 17 Fireball, 17M4 and 17 Rem with 25gr bullets or bigger are perfectly fine but these days they are getting a bit thin on the ground. That 17 Predator seems a good cartridge but I could not open the vid to see it in action. Would expect a very short barrel life though.

 

A

 

Hope this link works

 

http://www.rmvh.com/Movies/17with17.wmv

 

 

 

ATB

S

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There are lots of 17 cartridges.

 

The 17 Predator claims 30g @ 4000fps.

 

I think it's a modified 223 case,with enough taper still to function-and this seems it's only reason d'etre-in a Rem700 action. The 'obvious' 17-223 Ackley has some magazine loading issues,allegedly.The 17P brass isn't too straightforward to make,and the action needs work too.In a comparison with the standard 17 Rem using a 25g bullet,the 17P with a new 30g bullet was better....well,no surprise there (think BC).

 

The 17-223 wildcatted claimed 25 g @ 4480-which does seem implausibly hot.

 

The 17PPC and 17 BR would seem to have a bit more capacity,and should be able to handle 39g bullets,if we want to play apples versus oranges.

 

Some of these are reported in only very small numbers (one)

 

So,if you must have a hotter 17 in a Rem action,have a look.There may be better 17s,and the standard 17Rem with 30g bullets should not be overlooked,and has no obvious downsides.

 

gbal

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  • 2 weeks later...

Other than getting them from the USA is there anyone in the UK that stocks 17 cal 30 gr and above. Berger 25s are also in pretty short supply at present.

 

A

i have some 25gn bergers if your looking.

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i have some 17 cal bullets. 20 vmax 25 vmax. berger match and berger varmint.

i also have some 17 fireball cases there free to anyone who wants to collect.

 

or if you wanted to do a good deed. you could make a small donation to Birmingham children hospital :)

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Hi Alycidon. I have some 30 grain 17s they are hand swaged, if you are ever in shropshire your welcome to call in for a handfull of them to try.

Don

 

 

I run a 17AH, 30s are a bit on the heavy side for it but the starter of this thread may be interested.

 

Thanks for your offer though.

 

A

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Hi Alycidon. I have some 30 grain 17s they are hand swaged, if you are ever in shropshire your welcome to call in for a handfull of them to try.

Don

out of interest, are these something you hand swaged?

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Yes Sam i make them myself.

Don

Awesome. I'd be really interested to know more about how you got hold of the dies and then the constituent parts like the jackets and lead core? it's something i would love to try doing myself, especially as factory made bullets are in short supply in 17 calibre. Are they proving accurate and worth it over buying factory bullets?

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Sam pretty much every thing has to come from the USA. The lead wire is available in England but (hope someone can prove me wrong here) there are no die makers in the UK. Set up costs are quite high, the best advice i could give you is visit the Cast Boolits forum they have a swaging sub forum with loads of info there. Also ask mr Google or search for Corbin swage dies. If your ever in shropshire let me know and i will show you how it works.

Don

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