light .223 bullet?

[w0rks2much]

Hi folks,

 

Has anyone developed a light .223 round for long range rabbit and hare? Say up to 220 yards.

 

So far I’ve been using my .17hmr Sako Quad and its cracking rifle and very accurate but the permission is very open and catches the wind. I need to take longer shots and the HMR is running out of puff and POI is a bit frustrating in the wind.

 

My .223 is 1 in 12 twist and shoots 55gn bullets clover leaf hole at 100 yards all day long but that weight bullet strikes me as a bit much on rabbit & hare (as i want them in the pot) so I was thinking of taking it down to 35 grain bullet?

 

I have also considered a .17 Remington, .22 Hornet and .204 Ruger but I’ll need to sell my .17hmr first and as I already have the .223 I thought I would ask for some advice?

 

Thanks,

[247sniper]

Simple.... Rabbits at 220 yards you should be taking their heads!

[onehole]

Simple.... Rabbits at 220 yards you should be taking their heads!

Yep headshots at 200+ no problem for a cloverleaf grouping 223 at 100.

[w0rks2much]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the response, you don't think 55gn is too much then?

[ricky5042]

Hi folks,

 

Has anyone developed a light .223 round for long range rabbit and hare? Say up to 220 yards.

 

So far I’ve been using my .17hmr Sako Quad and its cracking rifle and very accurate but the permission is very open and catches the wind. I need to take longer shots and the HMR is running out of puff and POI is a bit frustrating in the wind.

 

My .223 is 1 in 12 twist and shoots 55gn bullets clover leaf hole at 100 yards all day long but that weight bullet strikes me as a bit much on rabbit & hare (as i want them in the pot) so I was thinking of taking it down to 35 grain bullet?

 

I have also considered a .17 Remington, .22 Hornet and .204 Ruger but I’ll need to sell my .17hmr first and as I already have the .223 I thought I would ask for some advice?

 

Thanks,

 

Hi

I had great results with 52gn A-max in my howa 1500 with 1-12" twist my load was 24.5gns of H335 oal was standard oal which produced a .060" at 50m and sub 4" at 400m.

 

Rick

[gbal]

As other replies-you don't need to change-accuracy is what you need,and seem to have,for 250y. You might try 52g,but why fix it if it's not broke? I found the old soft point 50/52 g excellent in a 222. 17 was also excellent,but no better terminally.

 

There is a fair chance you would find the ultra light bullets (30/35/even 40 g) are too light- they won't be better in wind-that's a BC issue.

They might just be prone to more carcass damage,being designed for essentially prairie dogs-about squirrel size, and not eaten. Some such bullets just disintegrate violently -do you want to have lead fragments in your mince?

No,keep with the 50g+ bullets-indeed your current 223 load-it will deal with wind at least as well as the lighter/faster numbers,which begin to lose out around 250 anyhow.....high BC is the best approach to wind-though you do have to balance effect on bunnies.Since 55g fits the bill,think of a change only if those don't work out....and remember,bullet construction is at least as critical as weight for your use.Not all 55g are equal,either.

 

gbal

[247sniper]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the response, you don't think 55gn is too much then?

 

 

Too much....no such thing bud!

 

I shoot them with a 80 grain Amax out my .223Ai. Dead is dead, as long as it is humane, crack on.

 

 

Steve

[CliveWard]

Certainly give some 35-40 grain bullets a try and see which suits in terms of accuracy and the desired reduced terminal effect you're looking for.

 

I use the 36 grain Barnes Varmint Grenades in my .223 People have mixed results with these in terms of accuracy which may be due to the fact they are quite long for their weight which lends them to performing better in faster twist barrels I believe.

 

Light bullets have light construction making them more frangible so you may well find yourself better off with a heavier more solidly constructed bullet.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[w0rks2much]

Great advice, thanks guys.

[Big Al]

Hi folks,

 

Has anyone developed a light .223 round for long range rabbit and hare? Say up to 220 yards.

 

So far I’ve been using my .17hmr Sako Quad and its cracking rifle and very accurate but the permission is very open and catches the wind. I need to take longer shots and the HMR is running out of puff and POI is a bit frustrating in the wind.

 

My .223 is 1 in 12 twist and shoots 55gn bullets clover leaf hole at 100 yards all day long but that weight bullet strikes me as a bit much on rabbit & hare (as i want them in the pot) so I was thinking of taking it down to 35 grain bullet?

 

I have also considered a .17 Remington, .22 Hornet and .204 Ruger but I’ll need to sell my .17hmr first and as I already have the .223 I thought I would ask for some advice?

 

Thanks,

 

How about looking at this a little differently? At 220yds an HMR has enough energy left to kill the rabbit/hare and keep it is a useable condition, the problem is the wind. You only need the thing dead, in bits is useless for the pot unless your doing a casserlole or stir fry.

 

A .223 running a 55gr bullet at HMR speeds of 2550 which you can get from running a reduced load of H4895 will have drift of 6.5" at 200yds whereas your HMR would have drifted 14" drops will be 5.5 versus 8.3 so again its better.

 

I would expect that a 55gr traveling at 1880fps by the time it reaches the target at 200yds won't be quite as destructive either. Its dangerous to low load some powders but Hodgdon H4895 is safe to do it, you start at 60% of maximum load and work up to the speed you want. Ive tried it and you get reduced recoil and less noise, very much .22 Hornet type performance.

[gaz6br]

I was amazed what a 40gr nozler would do in my 223 ackley it was silly out to 500 yards on a steady day

 

Gaz

[gbal]

I was amazed what a 40gr nozler would do in my 223 ackley it was silly out to 500 yards on a steady day

Gaz

Yes,in the 224s velocity is desireable out to about 300,but then BC takes over,as velocity drops in all,but more rapidly in the initially faster,lighter bullets,and very especially if there is wind-then it's the highBC heavies turn.....for which there is no substitute at distance.Gravity is predictable,and distance knowable....wind is neither. Accuracy of course cannot be compromised,the more so at distance.

Impact on target varies too-and the lighter fragmenting bullets can mess up meat...

 

Just as an aside,one of the principle reasons for lead free bullets in California's "Condor corridor"-and on the west high plains,was fragmented lead poisoning from shot prairie dog carcasses,scavenged by the raptors,and passed on to their chicks,with a high chick morality rate.Much improved,since lead controlled(we can be talking about very small lead shrapnel,detectabe by xray,but potentially fatal....there have been some studies of shot whitetail deer consumers with higher lead,not dangerously so,but enough to advise children and pregnant mothers to avoid.

Dead may well be a very conclusive state with some frangible lead bullets,but it's in the food chain....remember we are talking dust like particles,not tooth detectable size 6 shot.....but think wetland wildfowling....,and yes,I know we don't have condors....

 

gbal

[visiter1]

Get a 17 hornandy hornet , will give u hat extra range , i shoot rabbits every week to 300 with my one , and it will also kill a fox if he happens past,

[frank666]

You can do some reduced loads for the .223 with Blue Dot powder, it makes the .223 like a .22 Hornet or a bit more if you want.

I use 12g Blue Dot with a 40g vmax for my reduced loads.

cheers

[247sniper]

Get a 17 hornandy hornet , will give u hat extra range , i shoot rabbits every week to 300 with my one , and it will also kill a fox if he happens past,

 

Over a .223 shooting 55 gran bullets, I don't think so!

[247sniper]

Whats with all the reduces load talk guys, i just don't get it at all, what are you trying to achive.???

 

When we talk about vermin/hunting etc Its most important that we do it humanely as possible right. By making "Reduced loads" you are basically reducing you equipment efficiency over the range you are shooting at. Its like entering a cycling race or a car race with a flat tyre !

 

The OP says he has load already shooting bug hole groups at 100 yards, this is more then accurate enough for sub 300 yard bunny head shots, so why would he or anyone else want to tinker with that load by reducing its performance, again its like entering a car race with a miss-fire.

 

The .223 is cheap as chips to load for so powder saving will not be beneficial, so what else is there guys?

 

Steve.

[Sherlock]

Whats with all the reduces load talk guys, i just don't get it at all, what are you trying to achive.???

 

When we talk about vermin/hunting etc Its most important that we do it humanely as possible right. By making "Reduced loads" you are basically reducing you equipment efficiency over the range you are shooting at. Its like entering a cycling race or a car race with a flat tyre !

 

The OP says he has load already shooting bug hole groups at 100 yards, this is more then accurate enough for sub 300 yard bunny head shots, so why would he or anyone else want to tinker with that load by reducing its performance, again its like entering a car race with a miss-fire.

 

The .223 is cheap as chips to load for so powder saving will not be beneficial, so what else is there guys?

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

+ 1 - Well Said Steve.

The OP has a deadly accurate load already.. job done

 

If you really want you shave an inch or so off the bullet drop - consider using a 40 grn Nosler - standard 223 will zip these along at velocities around 3800 fps.

 

Visitor - Surely you don't mean the 17 hornet will give extra range over the 223 - do you ?

 

 

ATB

S

[Big Al]

Whats with all the reduces load talk guys, i just don't get it at all, what are you trying to achive.???

 

When we talk about vermin/hunting etc Its most important that we do it humanely as possible right. By making "Reduced loads" you are basically reducing you equipment efficiency over the range you are shooting at. Its like entering a cycling race or a car race with a flat tyre !

 

The OP says he has load already shooting bug hole groups at 100 yards, this is more then accurate enough for sub 300 yard bunny head shots, so why would he or anyone else want to tinker with that load by reducing its performance, again its like entering a car race with a miss-fire.

 

The .223 is cheap as chips to load for so powder saving will not be beneficial, so what else is there guys?

 

Steve.

 

No everyone wants to be balls out all of the time Steve, dead is dead and many would argue that a standard .223 load was way way overkill for a 200yd rabbit/hare.

 

A reduced load will get the job done with less recoil, less noise and less cost and all that is needed, to get the job done. One of the great benefits of being able to reload is the ability to tailor a load to a specific purpose. A reduced load .223 will do exactly what the OP wants and will save him money buying a different rifle. Your analogies about a flat tyre are not really valid as a reduced load operates at a different level of efficiency and if the range is not long then who is to say the efficiency is reduced? again it could be argued that at 200yds there is an overspill of efficiency with a standard .223 and it is too much gun.

 

So if the OP runs a reduced load and achieves what he needs then what exactly is wrong with that?

 

Your post reminds me of the story about the young bull and the old bull...

[247sniper]

200 yards on a rabbit is a fair old way for a lot of people, and TBH the HMR is not really a 200 yards cartridge. OK yes it can be done and I have done it myself but it certainly is not repeatable at this sort of range and certainly not in the wind, the HMR IMO is more of a out to 150 yards cartridge for reliable repeatable performance.

 

Therefore I don't think a .223/204 etc is too much gun, especially when the wind is up which is most of the time in reality. The performance from the .223/204 will help get you there with accuracy and authority, a reduced load will simply reduce the accuracy and Pedro,acne of that round plane and simple.

 

When shooting small targets out past 200 yards, things start to happen regardless of caliber. What I mean is for an example my .204 (204 being pretty flat, as flat as they come really) is zeroed at 200 (1/4 MOA) on a good day accuracy. Anything out to 200 yards I simply point and shoot, job done, out to 250 yards I can either aim a tad high or start the technique of dialing in which I prefer. Out to 300 yard dialing in is a must to eliminate the GUESS work, and likewise 4,5,600 yards etc etc.

 

If I reduce this load, I'm sure it won't be as accurate, it won't be as flat shooting, it won't be as good in the wind.

 

On the other hand with a .204/223 a hit on a rabbit anywhere is a kill for certain due to fast fragmentabe bullets. When using slower reduced loads and lobbing them to the target does not only decrease performance, accuracy and high bullet expansion rates but especially .224 heaveny slow bullets, it become more pronet to ricochet as well.

 

I have seen so many wonded rabbits etc from the likes of a HMR, 22 Mag etc due to the total lack of MV and ME to begin with, yeh I know it can be done as I've done it, but the shooter really needs to know what they are doing and have relevant range time and experience to pull the shots off.

 

I don't believe saving a peanuts on powder is even measureable neither is noise or recoil in the likes of a .223. Cartridge.

 

Cheers guys

 

Steve.

[Chris-NZ]

No one's mentioned it so far but you could try a 55 FMJ at full noise. Still fatal but without the meat destruction. Ricochets can however be an issue with these.

 

Had the definition of meat destruction yesterday - 95 V-Max out of a .260 at 80yds on a hare. 3" hole right through the shoulder, head left hanging by 1/4" of skin. Cats still enjoyed the backsteaks and rear legs

[frank666]

The reason why I use reduced loads in my .223 is that I shoot foxes around allotments and smallholdings.

Where I live there are a lot of allotments with chickens/ducks/geese, they are magnets for foxes.

The shots are around 125yds or less and there is a BIG difference in noise and recoil with the reduced loads compared to full power loads, the allotment holders know the difference in noise and that's why I'm allowed to shoot there.

I don't need to buy another rifle to get the performance I need.

I have two different points of aim with my reduced loads and full power loads, I just dial the one in I'm going to use.

I've been using this method for over 20 years and still have permission to shoot there..........must be doing something right?

[Big Al]

There are lots of performance levels between 17HMR and a full blown .223, all of them have uses in particular circumstances and offer advantages in areas like noise, recoil or carcass damage. The fact you can load a .223 to perform very well at all of these levels is a really useful attribute, it doesn't need to be balls out all of the time. Ive shot reduced loads recently that have been just as accurate as my full blown loads albeit not to the most extreme ranges. If 250yds is all you need then you don't need to be running a .223 at full warp speed, yes it won't be as flat or as good in the wind as a full power load but that doesn't make it useless by any means, if it did then there would be no calibers bellow .223 being used successfully anywhere which we all know isn't the case.

[CRD]

You can do some reduced loads for the .223 with Blue Dot powder, it makes the .223 like a .22 Hornet or a bit more if you want.

I use 12g Blue Dot with a 40g vmax for my reduced loads.

cheers

Good to hear about people who what to slow a round down rather than get the max plus a wee bit more.

How about a subsonic .223?

Home loaders could make the old .223 do the work of all the rf rounds.

Just a thought

.

[gbal]

CRD,yes-a thought,though not a new one;and some more thought suggests it's not all good news.

 

Firstly,I'd think there is some risk of inexperienced reloaders getting detonation (explosions,rather than the very fast contrlooed burning of normal cartridge loads) if inappropriate powders were used,in the small amounts (ie large space) in the 223 case.

No doubt ,some combinations would be possible, and have been tried-safely.

 

Secondly,sub sonic ammo is produced in US,at least, by Beck,and Allegiance ..the latter is "Silent Strike" and 100g @ 975fps This gives around 200 ft lb energy,more than 22lr,but less than 17HMR. There may be accuracy issues with such a heavy bullet in typical twist barrels...though not with the "light bullets" idea.

 

Just what use this might be is moot....though 300Blackout fans may have found some applications?

 

One off applications-a troublesome small varmint,maybe? might justify-where buying an appropriate conventional rifle would be too expensive for such a limited use; authority to use might need to be sought.

There would also be all the inconvenience of rezeroing the 223 for the different POI etc.

 

Can't see it as a very general solution to any real problem set.Niches do crop up from time to time,I suppose.But you begin to see why it's not a very popular option.

 

gbal

 

ps I do agree that uber velocity is not all it's cracked/talked up to be -but that is simple physics/ballistics-and not a reason for the other 'extreme'......

[kernel gadaffi]

I was taking rabbits out to 207 yards a few weeks ago with my Tikka T3 in .223, 40 grain V-max pushed by N120, my efforts were probably assisted by the Vortex VIper 6-20x50 perched on top.