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Seeing the strike.


Big Al

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Some of you guys will already know Im having issues seeing the strike sometimes from a caliber that others seem to have no problems with.

 

My rifle is a .223, Im running 55gr SBK at 2950 isn and the rifle weighs 11lb all up, the moderator is a Wilcat Evo which weighs around 1LB. I have tried 40gr loads and it doesn't seem any different. My scope is a Vortex Viper and the problem seems to be when shooting at 24x. Im shooting from what I think is a stable platform, i.e. the top of my jeep roof while standing on the tailgate, the rifle is either on bags or a bipod which is loaded with a rear bag.

 

Accuracy wise I have no problems, sub 1/2 moa is the norm at 100yds for my set up and I have good accuracy out to 300yds its just sometimes I loose the sight picture for a second and this stops me seeing the hit or more importantly the miss at times.

 

It has been suggested I might have a technique issue which Im happy to explore as everything can always be improved. Typically I have the butt touching my shoulder and a firm but not too tight a grip on the thumbhole pistol grip, Im concentrating on pulling the trigger directly back towards my shoulder using the tip/pad rather than the first joint. One thing I don't have is a great cheek weld as the cheek piece is a little low for the scope. I think the fact my accuracy is good suggests my basic technique is decent but are there things I can do to maintain a better sight picture?

 

Any thoughts most welcome :)

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How is your cheek weld? I found a cheekpiece, whether adjustable or just a bit of foam, made a huge difference.

 

Thats interesting, In my original post I didn't mention it but have edited it now. Cheek weld isn't as good as it could be, the cheek piece more touches my bottom jaw rather than my cheekbone.

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You need to sort your cheek weld out such that you can rest your head on the stock and obtain a perfect sight picture at the same time, no moving your head up or sideways to get the sight picture. You then need someone experienced to watch your technique.

Are you flinching?

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Tape soft rubber or foam to the stock until you have a comfortable sight picture-you should be able to take your rifle into fire hold eyes shut (not loaded of course!) and ave a perfect sight picture on opening.

Otherwise any recoil-always has to be a little- is not being directed straight enough into your line of vision

Taped up should cure-adds comfort too,and actually less chilly as temp drops! You may not need an expensive fix,but tie on comb raisers-Hunters do one-are about £35?

g

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Have you seen the THLR long range tutorial on youtube? He demonstrates in a few videos 'natural point of aim'. If you close your eyes and rest your head on the stock comfortably, then open your eyes afterwards then you should be in perfect alignment with your optic.

If your not, adjust cheekpiece!

 

Thomas Haugland posts here under the name of Roe, too.

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Wind the mag down until you can see the shot. I,m not surprised you can't spot it on 24 power.

 

Your absolutely right Baldie,,,,,,,I find 12 to 15 x is just about right and I use this at all ranges even out to 5/600 yards still no problem and induces a steadier hold[well looks like it!!}

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Wind the mag down until you can see the shot. I,m not surprised you can't spot it on 24 power.

 

I can see it at 12x but I feel that longer shots at smaller targets with my reticule makes it a less precise shot. Short of howling winds my jeep roof provides a very stable platform to shoot from so I don't find shake a problem at high mags. I did wonder if just the small FOV at 24x was making it difficult.

 

I also think the issue off poor cheek weld will make it much harder to keep my eye in line with the scope

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6 x 24 Vortex at 6 x mag at 100 yards you see a FOV of 17.8 feet

24 x mag and you have a FOV of 5.1' a third less by the time you get your eye and scope back on the target even though you may have moved very little it's been and gone I would say. It doesn't take much movement for you to not see properly through the scope.

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I second that. I shoot rabbits out to 500yds with a 6mmBR, as I'm sure a lot of others do here and do it with a x15-18 mag on a night force, from the bonnet of my truck and the rifle on dog-gone-good bags and see the strike every time.

 

X24 is excessive IMHO unless shooting at really long distance (> 800yds), and I've never missed the strike with anything I shot with my .204, up to 400yds (i.e seen all the misses at that distance! :) ). Reading all that has proceeded this message I tend to agree with the suggestion that it is a combination of shooting technique and excessive magnification to blame here...

 

Best wishes

 

Finman

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Al,

 

Not wanting to sound too blunt (but I usually do) seems from your posts that you are obsessed with high mag for distance, yet you are not shooting at distance!! Due to the 115 degree heat I shot moust of this years .50cal world championship at 1000yds in Raton, new mexico, with my scope set beyween 8-12 and yet did well enough to hold the centre enough times to bring home 4th place.

 

Dont get hung up on high mag, for the distqnces you are shooting 8-16 will be more than enough, look at CSR where we shoot fig 12s and 11s out to 600yds with a MAX mag of x4

 

Wind it down, enjoy your shooting and see the fall of shot! (Once you have sorted out the cheek weld)

 

Mike

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I sometimes shoot at rocks in our coastal cliffs out to bit over 800m with a 308 weighing under 10lb. With the right technique I can see the strikes shooting off the car bonnet. I prefer mag at 24. If I don't concentrate on the hold I miss the strike. My rifle has very little or no muzzle flip as it is balanced in the direction of recoil.

I would say work on the setup and technique as this will help at any magnification. As others said good cheek weld and maybe a firm hold loading the bipod.

edi

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Al,

 

Not wanting to sound too blunt (but I usually do) seems from your posts that you are obsessed with high mag for distance, yet you are not shooting at distance!! Due to the 115 degree heat I shot moust of this years .50cal world championship at 1000yds in Raton, new mexico, with my scope set beyween 8-12 and yet did well enough to hold the centre enough times to bring home 4th place.

 

Dont get hung up on high mag, for the distqnces you are shooting 8-16 will be more than enough, look at CSR where we shoot fig 12s and 11s out to 600yds with a MAX mag of x4

 

Wind it down, enjoy your shooting and see the fall of shot! (Once you have sorted out the cheek weld)

 

Mike

 

No offence taken Mike, Im quite happy with blunt as Im often like that myself.

 

I wouldn't say Im obsessed with high mag, I would think it more that Im new to shooting at what I currently consider long distances, circa 300-400yds. Its only since joining this forum that I have seriously taken an interest in shooting what I consider small targets at what I consider long ranges. As such when I bought a 6-24x scope I may have fallen into the trap of thinking if Ive paid for 24x I should be using it :blush:

 

Ive shot pretty much all of my life in one form or another with rifles and looking at my groups I would say my technique is consistent and reasonably sound, My groups are consistent and tight enough but clearly cheek weld has never been as important as it is now hence Ive overlooked its importance, a suitable comb raiser is being formulated now. I will also look at turning the mag down, I guess this is coming from my use of high mag or PCP's and rimfires where we never lose sight of anything.

 

I guess having a minimum acceptable FOV to be able to retain the sight picture is what I need to work out, this will then mean at longer ranges I can use more mag and still retain the same FOV, conversely that will mean winding down the mag at the closer targets?

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Al,going out today to check all this-as if 40+ years wasn't enough.

 

FOV is a non event ,to me. For 400 y varmints, you don't expect to miss by more than a few inches-and if you do regularly,you need to improve your ranging/winding,not your FOV,I would have thought.

The 17 is near perfect for non scope jump at any range before it runs out of velocity (300 max) even set at 24-and that is on a light sporter,without moderator!

223-69g up-at 25x is pretty good too,ditto 6BR up to 40x in a much heavier rifle,though the latter twitches just a tad-no problem to see strike,though.,moderator helps quite a bit on these.

 

Comb raiser has to be tried...DIY will suffice initially....

And you are right-anyone shooting sub 1/2 moa for that matter,does not have much technique problem.....

scope jump likely to be poor eye/cheek line up....

 

OK,let's go shoot,again....

g

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As someone has already said , shooting while stood on the tailgate of a sprung platform wont help. You have experienced the effect of wind on your 'stable' platform.

Last month i went out for a load development / zeroing session . As i only intended to fire a few rounds the missus came and we brought the mutt as well.

After a drive around with the dog running behind i set up on the bonnet.

Missus and dog sat in car after asking her to keep still several times I realised that the dogs panting was visible through the scope at 24x . I thought it was the missus messing around but when she got out and left dog in car it happened again.

You are stood at the furthest point away from the springs giving the most leverage.

Try off a bench and i bet you will see your impact.

Andy

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Some of you guys will already know Im having issues seeing the strike sometimes from a caliber that others seem to have no problems with.

 

My rifle is a .223, Im running 55gr SBK at 2950 isn and the rifle weighs 11lb all up, the moderator is a Wilcat Evo which weighs around 1LB. I have tried 40gr loads and it doesn't seem any different. My scope is a Vortex Viper and the problem seems to be when shooting at 24x. Im shooting from what I think is a stable platform, i.e. the top of my jeep roof while standing on the tailgate, the rifle is either on bags or a bipod which is loaded with a rear bag.

 

Accuracy wise I have no problems, sub 1/2 moa is the norm at 100yds for my set up and I have good accuracy out to 300yds its just sometimes I loose the sight picture for a second and this stops me seeing the hit or more importantly the miss at times.

 

It has been suggested I might have a technique issue which Im happy to explore as everything can always be improved. Typically I have the butt touching my shoulder and a firm but not too tight a grip on the thumbhole pistol grip, Im concentrating on pulling the trigger directly back towards my shoulder using the tip/pad rather than the first joint. One thing I don't have is a great cheek weld as the cheek piece is a little low for the scope. I think the fact my accuracy is good suggests my basic technique is decent but are there things I can do to maintain a better sight picture?

 

Any thoughts most welcome :)

cheek weld is so important it stops you moving your head, you should be able to lay prone rest your head on your stock, open your eyes and see straight down the scope, if not and you have to move your head then you need to sort this......

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As someone has already said , shooting while stood on the tailgate of a sprung platform wont help. You have experienced the effect of wind on your 'stable' platform.

Last month i went out for a load development / zeroing session . As i only intended to fire a few rounds the missus came and we brought the mutt as well.

After a drive around with the dog running behind i set up on the bonnet.

Missus and dog sat in car after asking her to keep still several times I realised that the dogs panting was visible through the scope at 24x . I thought it was the missus messing around but when she got out and left dog in car it happened again.

You are stood at the furthest point away from the springs giving the most leverage.

Try off a bench and i bet you will see your impact.

Andy

I bet you were wondering why the missus was panting a lot!!!

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