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Advice/opinions Kahles K624i Issue


farmer7

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Received my K624i yesterday and mounted it up and took it out today to zero/test/play. I wanted to do a tall target test to verify the click values. So I very carefully measured on a tall piece of whiteboard intervals of 18" on a plumbed vertical line and also hung my steel measuring tape vertically down the side to do some checks.

 

Before I fired a shot I could see the reticle was a good bit out. (I had measured 100 yards carefully with a surveyors tape and double checked with the laser) Three feet measured 9.6 mils equating to 104.17 yards. Four feet measured 12.8 mils equating to 104.17 yards. One metre measured 10.5 mils equating to 104.15 yards.

 

Having zeroed beforehand I start to test the clicks. Shot at the bottom spot at 100 yards to verify, bang on. Dialled up 5 mils and my group was 19 inches high instead of 18 inches, dialled up another 5 mils which had the centre of my group 37.75 inches high instead of 36 inches. Unfortunately I cant reach 15 yet as still waiting for my 20 moa base.

 

All three groups were under 0.5moa so accurate measurements to centre of the group was easy. Looking through the scope the clicks match the reticle fine but it means I would have to add a correction factor to my ballistic calculator. Easy enough, but accurate milling wont be possible.

 

I was just very surprised to see such an error. Two of my other cheaper scopes have come up fine on testing.

 

Just wondered what the opinion here would be? Keep it and apply a correction factor or send it back? I purposely ordered the MSR reticle specifically for accurate milling which I think is now not even usable.

eg. Target size of one metre measuring 1.25 mils = 800 metres. My scope would show the same size target as 764 metres. Quite a difference.

 

Any advice or opinions welcomed, anyone else with similar problems ?

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I thought the whole point of Mil/Mil FFP scopes was to use the logic and simplicity of the Metric system? Ar e you positive you aren't making any Metric/Imperial conversion errors?

I know but I like yards! Considered moving to metres but haven't done so yet! Everything I measured was bang on to my knowledge. Besides 36" inches @ 100 yards is 10 mil. Was very obvious on first looking through the scope my reticle didn't match up with either my scale or the tape.

 

On further searching I notice on Snipers Hide someone with an almost identical issue, about the same error also. He sent it back for repair and was fixed by Kahles. I just couldn't decide whether to keep it or send it back. What do people regard as an acceptable error?

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Just set things up to double check just now, again exactly 100 yards from board to scope objective measured with tape and verified with laser from scratch again today. Exactly 18" between target spots.

Kahles:

IMG_20140818_125608_zpsd134619c.jpg

 

 

Vortex:

IMG_20140818_125829_zps1bafe0d6.jpg

 

Kahles appears to be of by 0.3 mils. Vortex perhaps 0.05 mils, 101.01 yards for Vortex versus 106.38 for the Kahles. I put the rifle in a vice to make measuring easier.

 

This is by no means a bash Kahles thread, I will get the same again, no complaints otherwise. Just putting it out there its perhaps worth checking a new scope and not assuming expensive scopes are always correct.

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If it doesn't measure up, send it back. Secondly, consistent units of measure are critical to success, especially when you are under pressure.

 

I'm sticking to yards and MOA at present. My rangefinder only works in metres and as soon as funds permit, I'll change to yards for rangefinding.

 

Regards

 

JCS

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If it doesn't measure up, send it back. Secondly, consistent units of measure are critical to success, especially when you are under pressure.

 

I'm sticking to yards and MOA at present. My rangefinder only works in metres and as soon as funds permit, I'll change to yards for rangefinding.

 

Regards

 

JCS

 

J,absolutely,less error or possibility of error the better.Hooray for laser rangefinders-I was never convinced I had only standardised size rabbits,deer etc.

 

Meanwhile,for anyone with a metres only-if you add 10% to the metres distance you are pretty close to yards:

 

eg 400m (+10% which is 40 ) so "440 yards" (true would be 437.4 y)

 

And of course,if yards subtract 10% to get metres 400y (less 10%,40) is 360m (true 366.7m)

 

Probably 'field good enough' -it's only a 1% error) and pretty quick.

 

gbal

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Ive just bought one of these to go on my stalking rifle. However I will use it occasionally at the range so next time i get a chance i think i will have to test mine!

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Wow, can't imagine the rationale behind checking a mil scope 'at yards' and 'in inches'. :o:)

 

I haven't attempted to follow your conversion maths; but I'd recommend - just for giggles- gritting your teeth and setting your check target up at precisely 100m and putting some 10cm spaced dots up. That'll take the maths out of it.

 

- I have a mental disconnect between an optical ret subtension error AND a mechanical dialling error - I'd need a scope designer to tell me how that'd happen together, one optical, one mechanical (I'm not a scope designer, so maybe it is possible that one causes / can be linked to the other). But that gives me a 'hang on a minute' reaction :)

 

(What LRF are you using?)

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Wow, can't imagine the rationale behind checking a mil scope 'at yards' and 'in inches'. :o:)

 

I haven't attempted to follow your conversion maths; but I'd recommend - just for giggles- gritting your teeth and setting your check target up at precisely 100m and putting some 10cm spaced dots up. That'll take the maths out of it.

 

- I have a mental disconnect between an optical ret subtension error AND a mechanical dialling error - I'd need a scope designer to tell me how that'd happen together, one optical, one mechanical (I'm not a scope designer, so maybe it is possible that one causes / can be linked to the other). But that gives me a 'hang on a minute' reaction :)

 

(What LRF are you using?)

I was considering changing to metres when I bought this particular scope and flicking the little switch in the rangefinder over to metres. But that doesn't really matter just now because as it just arrived the other day I thought I'd test it as I'd done with some other metric scopes. I tested them at 100 yards so just left the test the same using the same measurements.

 

Aside from any conversions I know changing to metric is the sensible option and I will go that route when I get a replacement if it can be sourced. Apparently there are no other MSR reticles in the country just now. But at 100 yards 18" is exactly 5 mil so I dont think I need to set everything up for a third time.

 

The rangefinder is a Swarovski.

 

I promise i'll make the change once I get a replacement though! Would certainly be sensible seeing as I only own metric FFP scopes now! :)

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I haven't attempted to follow your conversion maths; but I'd recommend - just for giggles- gritting your teeth and setting your check target up at precisely 100m and putting some 10cm spaced dots up. That'll take the maths out of it.

 

(What LRF are you using?)

I thought I'd take your advice BD and try 100 metres after all just to make sure!

 

Measured again with tape exactly 100m and lasered at 100m. I put black tape on the tape right at the 1000mm line to make it clearer. I'd say its coming in about 9.63 mils or so = 104.17 metres.

IMG_20140819_123843_zps6201c762.jpg

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I thought I'd take your advice BD and try 100 metres after all just to make sure!

 

Measured again with tape exactly 100m and lasered at 100m. I put black tape on the tape right at the 1000mm line to make it clearer. I'd say its coming in about 9.63 mils or so = 104.17 metres.

IMG_20140819_123843_zps6201c762.jpg

No doubt about that! Send it back.

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hi iam thinking of getting the same scope as you,iam now a bit worried as your scope is not as it should be, do you think its a one off problem or have you heard of anyone else with the same problem.

have you sent it back yet if so what is the out come.

 

thanks stephen

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hi iam thinking of getting the same scope as you,iam now a bit worried as your scope is not as it should be, do you think its a one off problem or have you heard of anyone else with the same problem.

have you sent it back yet if so what is the out come.

 

thanks stephen

 

I wouldn't worry, I know my scope is very much the exception to the rule. As shuggy noted above in that test it's one of only four that had absolutely perfect tracking.

 

Ewan from DTA Europe contacted me to say he'd been in touch with Khales and they were very keen to get this scope back ASAP and get it sorted (much appreciated, I didn't even purchase it from him!) They told him 2 days. In my own correspondence with them they said they would have it for a maximum of 3-4 days. So they are keen to put it right.

 

Its somewhere with Parcelforce just now, the dealer arranged collection from mine direct to RUAG UK, and then on to Khales. Hopefully RUAG will post it on quickly, provided Parcelforce dont lose it!

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Hi have you got the scope back,could you please let us know

Thanks

Sorry chaps I'm still waiting. The scope arrived back with Kahles last friday. I emailed this morning to check on progress and got an email back straight away saying "The update will follow on monday, I have to await my colleague in the repair department". I hope this will be the case, I was assured on delivery the repair department would be finished with it in 3-4 days. Hopefully I'll have good news come monday.
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Just had an email from Kahles telling me my scope has been repaired and will ship out to RUAG UK today. Cant really complain at a one week turnaround from Austria.

 

The email said: " Result of repair: The Objective modified; checked on our collimator and the scope is now in order!"

 

Looking forward to getting it back and using it properly. (After a quick double-check! )

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Now, if that's repaired the problem and the scope does what it's supposed to do, service like that will get my business...!

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Will be very interested in your findings of the repaired scope.

One week repair is fantastic compared to the standard 6 month for nightmare.

Not sure how they can alter the reticles size so that it's corrected?

I've no idea either but I'm assuming if its been tested against the collimator, and hopefully ultra critically, it will be right!

 

Now, if that's repaired the problem and the scope does what it's supposed to do, service like that will get my business...!

Cant fault the customer service, I received several emails all from the same chap, very friendly and helpful, his English wasn't great but much better than my Austrian! Hopefully all will be well when I get it back. Will update with my findings when it arrives back and I get it back on the rifle.
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hi have you any up dates on the scope if yes please let us know

 

thanks

stephen

I will as soon as I get it back! RUAG have had it since Thursday and was assured it would be posted on to me immediately, hopefully it will be back with me tomorrow or Tuesday.
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Just an update, got my scope back early on in the week. Just didn't get a chance to post results here. Anyway all is well now and I'm very happy.

There was a note in the box explaining what had been done but regarding repair it just said 'objective modified'. When i sent it I included a note explaining how the click values were also off as well as the reticle. Previously at 100 yards shooting with 5 mil elevation gave me a group 19" high instead of 18" and then dialing up to 10 mils gave me a group 38" high instead of 36".

 

Anyway click values are now spot on and the reticle is now reading correctly also. I have shot it and groups are now bang on at 18" and 36" elevation at 100 yards.

 

A short before video, excuse the terrible video work, its not my thing! :

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