How much magnification?

[Big Al]

Im new to long range varminting, I consider a 300yd target long range based on my previos experience of shooting over distance. In the past Ive shot bigger targets at closer ranges and 8x-12x mag and a fairly thick reticule has been just fine.

 

Last week I tried a new Fox scope (which has subsequently proved to be faulted) which was 8-32x with an illuminated target dot reticule. I was won over by the precision this uncluttered reticule and very small/precise dot afforded me and I shot the best groups Ive ever shot with it.

 

So unfortunaley I cannot get a replacement scope, I can get a Fox 8-32x without illumination but Im afraid the ret just disappears under the lamp. I can get a Fox 6.5-20x with illuminated dot but Im wondering if 20x will be enough. Alternatively I can go Sightron with the 24x SIII illuminated ret.

 

How much magnification do you guys think I really need to be shooting rabbits and crows to 300yds, I just cant really see me and my .223 doing this 450yd stuff I see on Youtube? I appreciate its not all about magnification and that resolution/glass quality is very important, for example, would a 17.5x Stac make things easier than a 20x Fox based on better glass etc?

 

I really need a fine target dot with illumination and a mag as low as around 8x for foxing under a red lamp but Im unsure how high a magnification I realistically need, any thoughts would be most appreciated or ideas on what you guys are currently using?

 

Thanks

 

Al

[gbal]

Al,you seem to be saying that your eyes need an illuminated dot option and about 8x for lamp fox.OK.

For rabbit/crow out to your realistic 300y (I'm assuming not in the dark!),much more mag would be a useful option,so variable to 18x ,24x or 32x even better-as you say quality glass makes some difference,as light conditions deteriorate-but you don't need top end glass-for the last 4 minutes of light-I used a tasco 6-24 for decades on a 17rem,and it's still on it,it just makes more sense-performance/weight etc than the more expensive options-I note I have somehow managed to put Leupold 8-25 varmint reticules on my 222/223,and that works fine too (at 8x the cost!).

Try a few-at 300y-I don't think you will find 32x unuseable-on the contrary,you will wonder about 42x,but that is getting OTT.Your point about precision fine crosshair dot is ...err ...'spot on'....something that has to be experienced-a black blotto cross might do,but you should be able to pick your whisker,if not actually hit it! Check the illuminated options for 'fuzziness'-usually the smaller the illuminated bit,the better.

g

[Tony.H]

At night time 10 to 12 mag could be your max usable mag due to the light boncing back in the lens, day time its up to you, if you get 16 mag max, youll want 24mag later for the longer shot youll be doing when your confidence comes, So, you can always turn the mag down, But not up if you have not got it..

 

the only problem i had with the s3 was the exposed turrets, as i walk my shoots ive koncked the turrets more than once, thats the only reason i sold it, ive now got a swaro, 2.5-15x56 non illum with BT turrets, which i find bang on as i can check my zero with my hand with out having to look to see if ive knocked it,

15mag for me, will take me out too 300yards in day time easly, as ive been using 12mag under the lamp at 250yards on small vermin.. if i could of afforded the illuminated ret i would of had one, but ive never used one so, i dont really know what i am missing....

[Big Al]

Ive used 6-12x in the dark just fine but thats been with a 30/30 or 4a reticule. I found this week that the precise target dot of this Fox scope disappears under my red LED lights very easily without the illumination turned on lowish, I expect that would be the same with all these fine precise reticules and particularly with red light, not as bad with white or green but I prefer using red.

 

My main point is about how much mag we really need (as opposed to individual preferences) to do a good job at hitting crows/rabbits etc to say 300yds with decent glass and a small/precise reticule?

 

This kind of shooing is from a rested position so stability at high mag isnt such a big issue, equally do we really need to see every whisker? Being men makes use always want the next thing above what we already have so your right gbal, with 32x you could then want 42x but the difference is 'what we want' over 'what we actually need'. Looking out to 200yds from my front door over the field I think 20x would be fine on a rabbit or crow but I dont have the same option to view them at 300yds just now.

[Big Al]

Thanks for the input so far.

[Dorset Winmag]

Morning Al,

 

Agree with lots of the comments and suggestions above.

 

I use a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x on my .22-250, a Sightron SIII 10-50x and Zeiss victory 6-24 on the larger cals. The Zeiss outperforms all at dusk but in daylight and in the dark there is not much between them

 

Daylight is fine and you can wind the mag up to whatever suits but at dusk/night you will only be able realistically to use 10-12x

 

Be beware magnification is "addictive".....you always feel you need more!

 

DW

[tackb]

I'm a little different to most on here in as much as I don't hold with too much mag , my highest mag scopes are a 24x march and a 22x NXS , for 'varmints' out to 300m you will be fine with 16x mag ish , you don't need to hit a whisker just a centre mass hit on that sort of target will get results with a centrefire calibre.

 

I've taken my 300rum (22 power NXS) out to a mile and didn't feel under scoped for hitting a fig 11 , having said that i think to be really competitive at 'f' class you would need higher mag ?(but that's not your thing yet)

[gbal]

Al,tackb...I didnt mean 'hit a whisker'-just it suits some to see the target very clearly-I never took head shots-wind etc is just too unreliable,others may be better shots.....it was more in the spirit of 'whites of their eyes'-but that mag extends that range a bit.

One guideline for me was...do not lose sight picture in recoil, hardly an issue with the 17rem class,of course.Field of view comes into it too.

I do find 12x fine (well slightly coarse) to 500+,but 25x is better,and 42x is just more precise,when useable.

 

Al,it really is try and see-some don't take to high mag (in my early days,I remember one guy arguing vehemently my scope was loose,because the 36x cross hair 'danced about'...though he accepted that it was in synch with his heart beat...). I used an 18x Redfield on a 243,and didn't feel he need for anything more,until 32x came along.....

I'd say the issue is what do you feel comfortable and competent with,not what do you need,and any actual mag figures are at best just a guideline...at least out to 300y,dependent on conditions and target.

As everyone notes,the variable does give flexibility- a lot of the time,my 42x is at 32,or less...but I can study whiskers,if I feel the need. (just to trim the distal ends,of course.)

Gbearded

[Tony.H]

may be to make this simple, wirte down, budget, tube diameter, the obj size you want, what moa or 1cm @100m clicks you want, illuminate or not, type of ret, mag range, all these will norrow down what scopes are avallible, i think there are some sites that sell alot of scopes that have this feature on there sites, uttings do and sportsman gun centre, and this should at least give you an idea as to choices you have.....hth

 

atb

tony

[Big Al]

That makes sense Tony although both the Fox and Sightron scopes with IR will fit my needs. I can afford to buy the SIII 6-24x50 LRIRMOA at £850 but I would rather spend the Fox money if it did the job I needed. My reqirements as far as I think are as follows.

 

25mm or 30mm - dont care but most are 30mm

 

I would prefer MOA as I understand the concept, 1/8th would be nice but 1/4 will be fine

 

I want the target dot type reticule, it must be 1/4" in diameter on full mag @ 100yds and it needs to be illuminated, either simple fine cross hairs with dot or the Sightron MOA ret.

 

44mm to 56mm objective will be fine.

 

Must have dialing turrets

 

Must be repeatable and hopefully close to the click values.

 

Initially I was pretty much of the opinion that Sightron in either SIII or STAC was the route I would take but Ive been impressed optically and with the build quality of this Fox scope I bought, albeit it shifts POI as the mag changes so Im fairly sure it faulted, I bought it second hand for £80!. Of course I dont expect that to be the case with all the Fox scopes, the only trouble is they have only 6.5-20x50 left with IR as they no longer do the 8-32x50IR.

 

My head says cry once and buy the Sightron but Im also a photographer and sometimes you just do get the occasional good but cheap lens and this is why Im hovering over a Fox as the extra £750 in my pocket could come in useful. I was just hovering on the Fox as I wasnt sure 20x would be enough?

[onehole]

Hi Big Al,,,Nice to have 22 to 32 on my NXS,s for concentration on precise zeroing and 100m informal benchrest comps.In practically all other situations and varminting I like 12x as it seems to promote a rock solid hold and gives me a wider field of view.Might up mag a little for 500 plus but nightforce dot is easily small enough to plonk on a bunny.

 

Your head says cry once,,,,,,,,,your correct!!,,,,,,I have tried going cheaper in the past and there has always been something that disappoints.You may find a good S/H NXS or even a NF model for £800 ishhh?,,,,,,,,O

[Tony.H]

i see where your coming from al, dont forget the vortex range, from riflecraft.

personaly 30mm tube, min 50mm obj for vermin hunting, i like light gathering ability for the dusk/dawn time, fine ret so not to cover the smaller vermin,

i think the IOR range could have some thing you like altough alot have 34mm tubes..

 

I dont envy you having to choose it took me ages, i just could not afford the scope i wanted but, i am so glad i got the swaro, its second hand only thing that i am having to get used too is the 10mm@ 100meters..

 

nearly forgot meopta ave a good range of scopes and i dont think there that expensive..

if you can look through as many as you can the better......

 

everybodys eyes are different as well, i found that my leupold i had was a better focus and clearer glass to my eyes than the sightron, but the sightron was not so px fussy.......

 

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/25074-sightron-s111-8-32x56-lrtdtd/ this is still for sale its second page on sale section, one simlar to this with moa ret went for £650

[tackb]

vortex are great and punch well above their weight

 

ior are great if you can find the right one but they do have 35mm bodys which needs their own mounts (I think some were even 40mm tubes?)

[matchking]

I would be looking at the for sale section on here. I just sold a 24 power Swarvoski and a 25x Leupold for around £700. Good quality optics are always worth something if you wish to sell them or upgrade.Cheap optics are cheap for a reason. Not saying you have to buy a pm11 but something like a 6-18x50 Meopta at £500 is a much better bet. As for mag 300 yard targets wouldn't be a problem with 16x mag but as said if you have more mag it's always there if you need it.

Regards Sean

[Big Al]

Thanks very much guys for your replies.

 

I went out yesterday evening and ranged some crows, I think based on that I now feel I need 20x or above. At 300yds the improvement from 20x to 32x is good but at 20x I would still feel confident taking the shot with the appropriate support and a fine enough reticule and 24x seems common enough.

 

As Ive already said I must have illumination on the ret so Ive short listed a few possibilities below. Someone mentioned a second hand Sightron but to be honest I can get a 10% discount so it would be wiser to buy new as the used ones seem to be bringing 80% of the RRP lately. Ive also looked at the Vortex warranty which kind of gives me a lot of comfort, essentially they are saying you get a perfectly functioning scope for ever, so long as they are in business even if I accidentally break it.

 

What is really frustrating is that living in Northumberland there are no shops who stock this gear so getting to see anything before spending my money is going to involve a drive and to where Im not sure?. Can anyone suggest the nearest retailer with a decent amount of stock?

 

Scopes under consideration are below but I am still looking to see if there are any options Ive missed.

 

FOX 6.5-20x50 TDIR (almost a throw away punt but it could be worthwhile)

SIII 6-24x50 LRIRMOA

Viper 6-24x50 MOA

 

The last few second hand purchases I have made have not been great so Im quite reluctant to send off £800 for something I cant see in my hands first, this severely limits the second hand market.

 

What a frustrating business finding this scope is

[onehole]

S111 out of those 3,,,,,,,,,Still consider a s/h NF or NXS or similar from adverts on this site,,,they do come up fairly often and usually because guys are just upgrading or fancy something else.Put up a post in the wanted and see what comes up.