First stalking rifle - £1,500 budget - advice please

[grimrecruiter]

Hi

 

I will be buying my first stalking rifle soon. The use will be deer stalking, foxing and possibly boar in the future.

 

I have some comments made on the calibre on my application by regional firearms and so it could be a .308 (Have justified on the basis of all UK dear <humane kill>, plus target use etc. etc. etc. inc doing DSC 1 in October) or they may TRY and get me to go for .243 (I will be asking for them to proceed on the basis of the application I.E .308 but unsure how far I will take it if they dig in). I have a permission to shoot on land frequented by Roe - being inspected for deer legal rifle calibres.

 

I would like to buy a new rifle and have a budget of circa £1,500 (separate budget for scope / mod).

 

Personally I like the look of the Sako 85 Hunter Laminate Stainless and the Mauser M12 Extreme but have yet to shoot either. Under instruction on the Blaser R8 (sits back and waits for comments LOL) from a club that is run for deer stalkers but offers a 100 metre range for zeroing / target use.

 

What are your impressions of these two and what else would you suggest are contenders within budget?

 

Thank you in advance.

[Gandy]

Out of all three I would chose a Mauser as I personally prefer them, all are good rifles though.

[mikeroz]

Having 22 years deer management experience, and 4 years experience of sitting out waiting waiting for pig in Germany (a group of 5 of us had permission to shoot on a local estate) I would like to offer advice on calibre.

If you want a calibre to fit all your requirements with readily available ammunition it has to be the 308. Whilst 243 is an excellent calibre in many situations, on larger deer and pig the wrong choice of projectile (bullet type/weight) combined with poor shot placement (which can happen when you're still gaining experience) is likely to result in injured and lost quarry. In all honesty we've all experienced this, anyone who says they haven't is either lying, or hasn't shot much, but I can tell you it's a sickening experience. So, if you want one rifle, one calibre for muntjac through to red and wild boar too and you're a complete beginner of the two calibres you mention only a 308 is fit for purpose.

 

There are many other suitable alternative calibres but to be honest the 308 would always be my suggested 1st calibre of choice in your situation.

As for rifle make and type, there are so many I'm not going to go there.

[grimrecruiter]

The .308 is my preferred calibre for all the reasons you mention - initial reaction from A&S was a bit big for a first rifle. Hopefully my additional justifications over and above what home office guidelines gives them will tip the balance.

[mikeroz]

Humanely dispached quarry is the necessity here. Stick to your guns, seek BASC firearms department advice if you area a member. You might also wish to consider DMQ DSC1 although not mandatory it can help in demonstrating a level of competence to allay their concern.

[DW58]

With almost thirty years of deer management experience under my belt, I would agree with those above and say .308win - It will serve you well for anything in Europe whereas with the like of .243win you are very limited.

[mikeroz]

Very true DW58. We shot unsupervised on Dutch German border (DE side). One of our group ordered a new Blaser Professional with 308 & 243 barrels. He was messed around by Frankonia and was kept waiting months for the 308 barrel, it arrived after he'd been posted back to UK. He shot pig with 100grain 243. Now he was a professional rifle man, - WO1, later training Capt, - however he knew that if the word got out he was sitting out for pig with 243 the Germans would take a very dim view of it, with possible consequences.

[DW58]

Hell yes - .243 is too light for pigs, I've never used anything less than 180gr (.308win, .30-06, 7x64mm, 9.3x74R) in Germany. Although I have a .243 barrel for my Sauer, I haven't used it for years much preferring the .308 one. I've stalked deer in the UK with .243, .308. .222, 6.5x54, 7x64, .30-06 and always return to .308win.

[brown dog]

I'd include a weatherproof Sauer 202 in your considerations; I've owned one in 308 and one in 300WM - beautifully made rifles; removable buttstock (ease of packing/travel) inside-the-trigger-guard safety release (with trigger finger).

[Tuck]

If I were you id go and look at the Sako, iv just purchased a 85 and although I'm not sure if it's as good As my old 75, I do like it and its not to heavy, the nice thing with the Sako is if you ever need to shift it on, Sako has a good following which could be handy.

[Montey]

I'm still new too stalking but I've learnt a bit I've got a 243 RPA its the rong rifle its ok on roe and Chinese but way to heavy. I'm having a lite rifle built by Dolphin Guns in 308. What ever you go for rember your probly going to be luging it up hill and down dale.

[grimrecruiter]

Thank you all for your views. It is really unusual and pleasant to be on the end of constructive advice. Some forum members on other forums would rather get into a slagging match over their views than offer decent thoughts.

 

As regards the Sauer - Something else to consider and with Steve Beatty on my doorstep a possibility.

 

Few seem to have any issues with the Sako except to say that they feel it is slightly overpriced. I have secured prices for .308 on the Grey Laminated Stainless of between £1,430 to £1,452.

 

I must say that from a looks point of view the laminated stock on the Sako is my personal favourite and if it will shoot consistently within the 4" sweet zone which I suspect is not going to trouble it much is looking a likely buy.

 

At the CLA I will be handling all the suggestions - Once again thank you for taking the trouble to reply.

[jcampbellsmith]

Have a read of Nathan's book before you spend any money

 

- http://www.ballisticstudies.com/shop/The+Long+Range+Hunting+Series/The+Practical+Guide+to+Long+Range+Hunting+Rifles+Ebook++Paperback+Version.html

 

I wish I'd read this book 20 years ago, I would have saved myself an awful lot of money.

 

Regards

 

JCS

[grimrecruiter]

Thanks for pointing out merits of Nathan's book. On my Kindle now

 

Hopefully I will not be more unsure at the end of reading it.

[jcampbellsmith]

Thanks for pointing out merits of Nathan's book. On my Kindle now

 

Hopefully I will not be more unsure at the end of reading it.

 

Chuckhawks also does some rifle comparisons and there's a monthly subscription option to his website. Nathan Foster will respond to specific questions.

 

It's easy to buy the wrong rifle. It's painful to sort out mistakes.

 

Regards

 

JCS

[gbal]

HI,glad you've had sensible advice-on both calibre and rifle. We all have some preferences,of course,and some have experience of several models.You are doing the right thing-handle each of your options-that's what you will be doing,when the initial cosmetic impact recedes-though you should like it,of course.Make sure the rifle has the features you want/need (weight, det mag etc)- your contenders do not need replacement bits (stock, etc-they are made right).I'd expect any to be one moa rifles,if not better,with good quality factory ammo.

[Ronin]

15 yrs plus experience of stalking Red, Roe and Fallow, plus build rifles part time for most applications.

 

The Sako will do very well, though it is I believe not as good as the 75 variant.

 

The Mauser - reliable, easy calibre changes

 

Sauer - another reliable choice though I have never really liked those thin forends, which on some rifles can cause accuracy issues with repeated shots.

 

Blaser, hmm

 

 

Calibre - 308 is a do all calibre for deer management and target work and a better choice than 243 without wishing to engage in a calibre debate.

 

My advice would be to try each of your possible for fit to your body type, you'll be surprised how different they are unless you are "mr average"

 

 

Don't discount a secondhand rifle, so long as it is an un abused example.

[Gandy]

I'd include a weatherproof Sauer 202 in your considerations; I've owned one in 308 and one in 300WM - beautifully made rifles; removable buttstock (ease of packing/travel) inside-the-trigger-guard safety release (with trigger finger).

+1 on a 202

[grimrecruiter]

It is the Mauser M12 that I was considering - not switch barrel obviously. They can be had for under £1400 in a deal.

 

There is a M03 at £1800 available but comments about the comb being low put me off a little (comb riser would sort).

 

The M12 has had some comments made about the way the barrel is bedded making a replacement barrel change a problem. I have to say that I genuinely doubt that I will put 50 rounds through it a month. Based on being well looked after and 5000 round barrel life I cannot see this as a problem as it should last me 8 years +.

 

Really good advice on fit to body. I noticed this when mounting shotguns. Some caused me to look over the rib rather than down it. I had a bigger budget but ended up buying a Fausti Pro Comp new at a silly price and unless I win the lottery it does just fine.

 

Looking forward to CLA. Short listed all your recommendations to play with. I am under instruction from Paul Hill at Corinium and naturally with his love of Blaser and Mauser this would be his steer. In fairness he refuses to push anything that he hasn't shot personally. Yes he loves the R8 in .308 (my first girlfriend) and 30 06 but he has shot Sauer and Mauser (M03) over the years. In fact he is slightly critical of the R8 in .243 guise.

 

 

Thanks again.

[Offroad Gary]

Blaser r93/r8 is one of the better, if not best stalking/hunting rifles around. I used one in .308 for 4 years, using 125 gn bullets it killed everything very dead. Bit messy on smaller deer because of the ballistic tips charachteristics. Good fallow killer but would sometimes damage roe and munjac beyond economical repair.

 

You mention foxing, .308 is not suitable for lobbing around in the dark, you'll end up missing things and bouncing bullets off into the darkness, not a criticism, just an observation.

 

You need 2 rifles now, welcome to the club!

 

Oh, and a 3rd for pigs...

 

Dont have a blaser now but that might change soon, sako would be good choice. The 85 laminated varmint fluted at 20" is strong and accurate, get the right scope set at the right height and you'll kill deer very efficiently.

[gbal]

Grim..,

More sensible points-only you know just what shooting you will do.

 

The Fausti sisters do indeed makes good sales pitches,but you can't have all three!

 

Whereas Gary's points ,added in with Ronin's ,do allow-indeed suggest,three rifles-or two anyhow (flo might be ok about it):

 

I'd be thinking about two Sakos- 308 for bigger deer,and (just about) boar,and a smaller calibre for smaller deer,fox and varmint-I'd go Sako 6PPC. To stay in budget,these would obviously be used rifles-not a problem if you try before buy,and 75 model( arguably better rifle than 85-but budget drives it anyhow)-the only snag is that a 6ppc won't be easy to find in a hurry (243 would be fine also-and easy).Rifles would handle exactly the same etc.You might have to compensate on scope budget a bit-but no one scope is going to be ideal for varmints and boar(a variable might get by).

Any "one rifle does it all " has to be a compromise-perhaps too much of a compromise-no mechanic with just one wrench is getting near my car! There are other options-if one rifle it must be-eg use a hire rifle for any future boar shooting (save on export hassle,and you won't be firing many shots anyhow-and with perhaps a bettter calibre?)

 

I'm not trying to complicate-and you may already have considered some of the points raised in the posts.

 

Or using 110g to 220 g 308 bullets for different applications-fine,that does give considerable versatility(as would a switch barrel,but not in your current budget).

 

Shotgunning is easier of course,just a tube,really and skeet and olympic trap can't be so very different....can they!! The three sisters revenge! Good luck and shooting.

[DW58]

I've owned/used a Sauer since 1988 - superbly accurate, utterly reliable and being modular it's so easy to carry/pack when travelling. I own two barrels and three scopes fitted to the same rifle - total interchangeability and complete return to zero.

[brown dog]

Blaser r93/r8 is one of the better, if not best stalking/hunting rifles around. I used one in .308 for 4 years, using 125 gn bullets it killed everything very dead. Bit messy on smaller deer because of the ballistic tips charachteristics. Good fallow killer but would sometimes damage roe and munjac beyond economical repair.

 

Blasers are the ultimate marmite rifle.

 

I've owned 3. It's my view that they are possibly the worst rifle on the market from a reliability point of view. My first Blaser struck light on 10% of occasions. Both the others, including a 338, struck light on occasion....but they're neat and little and come apart into easy travel sized pieces. They're also stunningly accurate (when they fire!).

Blaser advocates will usually, once they've got past defending their massive spend, admit a light strike rate that they ignore.

 

(As regards the Blaser 'danger' claims; I don't know, I don't think I ever got past a point where I stopped wondering if the bolt assembly would come back - if it's in your mind it's there for every shot As a bit of related but different side data: the TAC2 was binned from the Brit 338 trial because the rifle had two safety faults laid bare on the trial: the magazine could bear up on the firing sear thingy in such a way that it prevented the rifle firing; but the rifle would then fire as the mag was dropped. Similarly, if the little upward stud above the trigger got gunked in the down position, the rifles would fire on closing. Both faults were denied by Blaser initially, but subsequently admitted. The rifles were thrown out of the trial immediately.)

[Offroad Gary]

A pair of tikka t3's would put you in the right place calibre wise, .223, 22-250 or .243 for fox; and something bigger for deer, 25-06, .270, .260, .308, 30-06. Put a £200 meopta 7x50 on the foxing rifle and use light varmint bullets, and use deer bullets in the deer rifle with the scope of your choice. Share moderator, bipod and sling.

[DW58]

Blasers are the ultimate marmite rifle.

 

 

 

Totally agree, and my view is equally negative. I simply don't trust the action, and I loath the look of it. There are a number of interchangable-calibre rifles which are IMO much better, I'd rate them as follows:

• Sauer 200/202
• Merkel RX Helix
• Mauser 03
• Swissarms something-or-other
• Strasser Ugly-fecker
• Other
• Another other
• Even more others
• Blaser R8
• Blaser R93