FORAGING ON A COMERCIAL SCALE???????

[dylan5588]

Hi all, I love to go out to my local woods early in the morning, collect a few mushrooms and fungi etc, but just recently I noticed in what should be a good year for fungi, an almost "scorched earth" look to the forest floor. this had me concerned as to what was happening, a few days ago I had my answer, A group of eastern European men and women, moving through the forest in an orderly line, gathering all that they came across!!!!! each carrying 2 large buckets!!!

I was wondering if anyone else had come across this horrifying act of Greed, in their area,

Regards a concerned Aj

[jungle_re]

Anywhere that carp frequent! They get quite scared though when they get dogged out hiding between pheasant drives. Never saw them back again in that area but other river/ pounds in the south east I frequent are regularly devastated by raft netting Eastern Europeans

[dylan5588]

Anywhere that carp frequent! They get quite scared though when they get dogged out hiding between pheasant drives. Never saw them back again in that area but other river/ pounds in the south east I frequent are regularly devastated by raft netting Eastern Europeans

I don't know how these people got home, as the people carrier they had, seemed to have 4 flat tyres when I left the car park, cant imagine how that happened!!!!!

[jungle_re]

Trust me its quite a surprise when a gaggle with more than its fair share of head scarf wearing old women come charging out of the tree line when your waiting for a bash at some high pheasant instead you get peasants! Not sure who was more scared the extended line or the old boys on the gun line!

[gbal]

I don't know how these people got home, as the people carrier they had, seemed to have 4 flat tyres when I left the car park, cant imagine how that happened!!!!!

Vigilance and vigilante are only a letter apart,but a moral and legal world apart.

 

Gbal

[dylan5588]

Vigilance and vigilante are only a letter apart,but a moral and legal world apart.

 

Gbal

What is your suggestion for dealing with this menace then? A quiet word? I don't think they would have taken a lot of notice of that, sometimes you have to take positive action, if you believe in something, (they have not been seen in the area since)

[gbal]

What is your suggestion for dealing with this menace then? A quiet word? I don't think they would have taken a lot of notice of that, sometimes you have to take positive action, if you believe in something, (they have not been seen in the area since)

"Greed" ,"menace' are rather emotive words-maybe it's 'need' and customary practice elsewhere.

Is it illegal?

Did you want the fungii ,but too late?

What if they were instead a nice middle class 'fungus foray' group?

 

Once you are into 'action',as you put it,you open a pandora's box,which can escalate.

Presumably the courageous defender of future fungii didn't stay after deflating the tyres,or try the option of discusion.He may well have failed to convince the harvesters,who might think,perhaps understandably,that they have done nothing wrong.

If they do return,what is the next 'action'-physical violence?

How would you feel about vigilante action taken by anti shooters?

 

What would I have done?

If I'd been keen for some fungii,I might have offered to buy some from the pails,assuming it was legally harvested.Or get there earlier next time.

If it was not legal,report the vehicule registration to the police.

 

Gbal

[dylan5588]

"Greed" ,"menace' are rather emotive words-maybe it's 'need' and customary practice elsewhere.

Is it illegal?

Did you want the fungii ,but too late?

What if they were instead a nice middle class 'fungus foray' group?

 

Once you are into 'action',as you put it,you open a pandora's box,which can escalate.

Presumably the courageous defender of future fungii didn't stay after deflating the tyres,or try the option of discusion.He may well have failed to convince the harvesters,who might think,perhaps understandably,that they have done nothing wrong.

If they do return,what is the next 'action'-physical violence?

How would you feel about vigilante action taken by anti shooters?

 

What would I have done?

If I'd been keen for some fungii,I might have offered to buy some from the pails,assuming it was legally harvested.Or get there earlier next time.

If it was not legal,report the vehicule registration to the police.

 

Gbal

Why do you assume that verbal discussion did not take place? And why should responsible gatherers offer money for something that should be a free resource for all to enjoy, now and in the future. "Future" being the operative word, the way these people strip all before them, will endanger the sustainability of the fauna and flora they reap. Also, I do have to cope with "Anti's! in my line of work as a pest controller, I have to foot the bill for stolen or destroyed, legal traps, Have you ever tried reporting such incidents to the police? In my experience a lack of interest sums up the response.

Aj

[gbal]

Trust me its quite a surprise when a gaggle with more than its fair share of head scarf wearing old women come charging out of the tree line when your waiting for a bash at some high pheasant instead you get peasants! Not sure who was more scared the extended line or the old boys on the gun line!

Inedible peasants,unspeakable toffs. Makes some people Wilde.

Why not employ them as beaters-free fungii?

Gbal

[dylan5588]

Why do you assume that verbal discussion did not take place? And why should responsible gatherers offer money for something that should be a free resource for all to enjoy, now and in the future. "Future" being the operative word, the way these people strip all before them, will endanger the sustainability of the fauna and flora they reap. Also, I do have to cope with "Anti's! in my line of work as a pest controller, I have to foot the bill for stolen or destroyed, legal traps, Have you ever tried reporting such incidents to the police? In my experience a lack of interest sums up the response.

Aj

Post script to gbal comments....A "middle class fungi foray group" would be abiding by the unwritten rules of gathering, and do I detect a "class" issue in your comments? May I pose this question? where do you draw the line? what species are ok to over harvest, Fungi? Nuts? Primroses? Rabbits? Rhino's? Tigers? The last two are plus the primrose are already endangered through mans greed, and before you think to yourself "Oh but there is plenty of Fungi to go round" That's what they said about the tiger 100 years ago!!!!!!!!!

Aj

[gbal]

Why do you assume that verbal discussion did not take place? And why should responsible gatherers offer money for something that should be a free resource for all to enjoy, now and in the future. "Future" being the operative word, the way these people strip all before them, will endanger the sustainability of the fauna and flora they reap. Also, I do have to cope with "Anti's! in my line of work as a pest controller, I have to foot the bill for stolen or destroyed, legal traps, Have you ever tried reporting such incidents to the police? In my experience a lack of interest sums up the response.

Aj

My assumption that no discussion took place is based on (quote" "A Quiet word.What makes you think that would have had any effect?''-seems to me pretty clear ,no words were exchanged...and I can't imagine the tyres would have spontaneously deflated either,as these discussions were going on!!

I am sorry you have been on the victim end of vigilante damage.It probably didn't deter you,but either way it is not the way to resolve issues.I don't think lack of police action would constitute a legal defence for retaliation-what is not at issues is some initial emotion etc,but what is best done about the perceived wrong.

'Jaw jaw,not war war", as I believe Winston Churchill expressed it-though some are better at the jaw (and probably the war) than others. "Talk quietly,but carry a big stick',was the advice of his American counterpart,but the stick was not to be wielded by angry vigilantes;and this general position characterises most decent societies,UN,etc.

 

I very much doubt that any calm-or otherwise- exchange of views took place,but perhaps you were there and can advise,despite your first account. It's not clear actually which viewpoint is indeed the more defensible-some might see most fungii as unharvested and therefore wasted...I actually collect about 20% of spores and scatter,but that's in my back yard.

 

Gbal

[dylan5588]

My assumption that no discussion took place is based on (quote" "A Quiet word.What makes you think that would have had any effect?''-seems to me pretty clear ,no words were exchanged...and I can't imagine the tyres would have spontaneously deflated either,as these discussions were going on!!

I am sorry you have been on the victim end of vigilante damage.It probably didn't deter you,but either way it is not the way to resolve issues.I don't think lack of police action would constitute a legal defence for retaliation-what is not at issues is some initial emotion etc,but what is best done about the perceived wrong.

'Jaw jaw,not war war", as I believe Winston Churchill expressed it-though some are better at the jaw (and probably the war) than others. "Talk quietly,but carry a big stick',was the advice of his American counterpart,but the stick was not to be wielded by angry vigilantes;and this general position characterises most decent societies,UN,etc.

 

I very much doubt that any calm-or otherwise- exchange of views took place,but perhaps you were there and can advise,despite your first account. It's not clear actually which viewpoint is indeed the more defensible-some might see most fungii as unharvested and therefore wasted...I actually collect about 20% of spores and scatter,but that's in my back yard.

 

Gbal

"A quiet word" comment was an invite for you to explain what you would have done, A polite verbal exchange did take place, but was just ignored,

I respect your opinions, But I think this exchange would best be left as, "agree to disagree"

[gbal]

Post script to gbal comments....A "middle class fungi foray group" would be abiding by the unwritten rules of gathering, and do I detect a "class" issue in your comments? May I pose this question? where do you draw the line? what species are ok to over harvest, Fungi? Nuts? Primroses? Rabbits? Rhino's? Tigers? The last two are plus the primrose are already endangered through mans greed, and before you think to yourself "Oh but there is plenty of Fungi to go round" That's what they said about the tiger 100 years ago!!!!!!!!!

Aj

Aj, being broadly middle class,I may have some bias,not least against mob rule-I really meant that controlled gathering with unwritten rules-(worth of course the paper they are written on to some) is only one tradition,and continental europe,eg,may have different traditions (where waste is less tolerated)-if anything,it's a cultural point,not a class one.

One of the issues about flora and fauna conservation is that 'unwritten rules' are simply not good enough,and good management is needed(no one shoots 280 grouse in one day now,though actually actually there is no written rule about it!).Not sure what the current view of Italian shooters is,of what many here consider 'song birds'

I think your extension to tigers etc is a bit of a stretch,and rather different because of imposed restrictions-granted,ignored by poachers.There always were voices for restraint -"The wildlife we have today is not ours to dispose of as we will,we must account for it to those who come afterwards"-I read this every week (Shooting Times front page, from a royal shooter).

"Conservation means good management' came a bit later-but managing threatened-indeed any species-from increased onslaught is indeed difficult. USA provides examples of failure -passenger pigeons,almost bison-and success ('ducks unlimited',and healthy deer populations)-none down to vigilante action,incidentally. Or Sir Peter Scott here,but this costs money.

As to nutty predictions..well,London isn't under 20 feet of horse manure-might have been good for fungii,of course.Nonetheless,as you say,something might need to be done....and I'm sure you will be in favour of a controlled breeding population of the species you predate on for a living,quite properly.

Short of a Brussels mandated standard bucket,and a season permit etc,we have to try the reasoned discussion-and maybe accept that the early bird does get the worm,and see how flocks affect supply,just as the urban fox gets the supermarket wastage.

I don't though see mush room for illegal actions by unauthorised ,if disgruntled vigilantes,and struggle to think of successful instances of its application to conservation,though some antis might see fox hunting restrictions as such.

I didn't say it was always easy, but that vigilate action is more part of the problem,than a solution for any decent society.

 

Gbal

[gbal]

"A quiet word" comment was an invite for you to explain what you would have done, A polite verbal exchange did take place, but was just ignored,

I respect your opinions, But I think this exchange would best be left as, "agree to disagree"

Agree,and reciprocated.I expect both sides ignored the other,glad it was polite,as no doubt the tyre situation would have been had the vigilante remained-huff and especially puff might have been useful,to resolve the curious flat tyres.

Bon appetit!

atb,

Gbal

[rem700]

Thanks you two, i really enjoyed that civil exchange

[eldon]

Foraging on a commercial scale ............... and I thought this was an article about the government

[jungle_re]

In my case it wasn't fungi it was prize carp worth a lot of money.

Police were called any absolutely nothing happened apart from a few worthless dead fish taken off them

 

The fungi is no different to e Chinese who descend on the cockles on many south welsh beaches, it was not uncommon for several coaches of them to turn up together mss cockling. The locals around Pembrokeshire manged to sort them out in house effectively after failure of th authorities to enforce the foraging limit (which I think is 2kg per person?)

[gbal]

In my case it wasn't fungi it was prize carp worth a lot of money.

Police were called any absolutely nothing happened apart from a few worthless dead fish taken off them

The fungi is no different to e Chinese who descend on the cockles on many south welsh beaches, it was not uncommon for several coaches of them to turn up together mss cockling. The locals around Pembrokeshire manged to sort them out in house effectively after failure of th authorities to enforce the foraging limit (which I think is 2kg per person?)[/quote

 

I am not supporting mass funghi foraging etc-the point is the legal one-probably the carp taking is poaching,otherwise the police would not intervene at all. If there is a fungi foraging limit being broken,then the position is the same-inform authorities.

What I am argueing against is preemptive,premature or retaliatory vigilante action,ouside the law,where criminal damage or bodily harm-where is the line drawn ,indeed?-may be imposed on the foragers-this is the "West" not the wild west-we're supposed to act rather better. What,exactly,did the 'inhouse sorting' comprise?

Being local is no excuse for breaking the law,and being non local,dare we say,is no defence against breaking it either,where it exists.

Gbal

[dylan5588]

Uuuuuuuuuum? the words Of, Worms and Can come to mind, I think I have opened a large one!!!!!

Aj

[jungle_re]

I wouldn't like to pass on just hearsay I'm sure a google search will bring something up, but from what I have been told it wasn't violent just lots and lots of people mobilised to make thing awkward for the coach load enough that it wasn't worth there time to bother again. Sure you might some local Pembrokeshire paper online stories if you have a search

[dylan5588]

Post script to my last post, Does the liberation of innocent trapped air from a tyre or 4 constitute criminal damage?? Sorry just trying to lighten the mood of the debate, It does however seem to be a topic close to other peoples hearts, which I am pleased to hear.

Aj

[gbal]

Post script to my last post, Does the liberation of innocent trapped air from a tyre or 4 constitute criminal damage?? Sorry just trying to lighten the mood of the debate, It does however seem to be a topic close to other peoples hearts, which I am pleased to hear.

Aj

Re 'lightening'-fair enough,me too. One might liberate the air in 4x4s parked perhaps illegally for a few minutes outside your house on the school run,but it would not do to make a habit of it,would it,and it is no doubt some kind of offence,even for Yummy Mummies.

 

Close to the heart? Well,for those that have missed it,shooters are quite a law abiding section of society,and I for one would like it to remain that way.Happy to wear that heart on my sleeve :-)

Gbal

[baldie]

Just to add something to this conversation.

 

I,ve travelled to Ireland for the last 20 or so years fishing, and have steadily seen its fish stock decimated by the eastern european immigrants. What was once a veritable fishing paradise has been absolutely destroyed. The fish are no longer there. I spent the last two visits virtually fishless.

 

The Irish know this and so do the fishing holiday companies. Imagine how much this has cost the Irish economy. Their fish stocks will never recover , and the anglers have deserted the land.

 

It makes you think.

[dylan5588]

This is the point I was trying to get across when I first posted, I know fungi are a minor consideration in the scheme of things, but where does it all end?

Oh and by the way Baldie, if by any chance you are Santa in disguise, I would really like one of those .243 fat boys in my Christmas stocking!!!!!! LoL Lovely bit of kit!!!

[gbal]

Dave and Dylan,

I agree-you can add in poaching of rare (any) species etc etc.

The problem is clear enough,and not really new.

The issue is what can a law abiding citizen,and indeed country ,do about it.

Quite a bit,with game laws,quotas and such,restocking,but it does not come cheap.

Amateur vigilante acts of illegal retribution are not the long term answer,however.

We all need to think on and beyond,or at least support the likes of BASC,who are aware and do something.BASC of course has little influence in Italy,where shooting migrating finches etc occurs,while we don't shoot such species in the UK. The issues cross frontiers of many kinds.

atb

Gbal

 

ps I miss the mushrooms and trout of 50+ years ago too,in the times when schoolchildren were allowed days off to pick roadside rose hips,in organised 'groups'.