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Cost of proper blueprinting of Rem 700


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#1 Raifuru

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:46 AM

I have access to a new Rem 700 Action in 308 Bolt Face S/A and as I am looking at a 6x47 build am pondering using the 700 Action in place of a custom action.
Question is, is a 700 action worth blueprinting? How much would it cost?
Thanks

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#2 Tuck

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:05 AM

Speak to ronnin or baldie sure there be able to assist I personally think they do make good base for a semi custom I have one and it shoots great!

#3 Ronin

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:53 AM

I dont do things commercially, so perhaps Dave would be best placed to comment on cost.


Proper blueprinting for me would be, truing the action face and lug abuttments, recutting the action threads and also truing the bolt lugs, bolt face then lapping the lugs to the abuttments.

The setting up of the action and bolt in the jigs required takes alot longer than the actual cuts.

Personally it takes me about two hours to true an action using these tools, the way I do it.

Id only consider doing it as part of a build or re-barrel.

One could also consider sleeving the bolt to take out "slop", however, given the time involved in this work, it would (for me) be more cost effective to source a replacement PTG bolt - this is assuming the original bolt was well loose...
WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE YOU IMAGINE AND WHAT YOU IMAGINE IS FAR WORSE THAN WHAT ACTUALLY EXISTS

#4 Gunsgobang88

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:01 AM

Hi,

Blueprinting a Rem. M700 is viable if you have access to a receiver at reasonable cost and you are not planning to fit a really long and heavy barrel, there are far better and more rigid actions available for this. 'Blueprinting' is a bit of a misnomer as you are altering the receiver beyond factory tolerances, whose 'blueprint' are you working to? Speak to 10 gunsmiths and you will get 10 opinions as to what constitutes blueprinting. The following is a brief guide I wrote at the request of one of the shooting magazines a few years ago.

1. Put 2 tapered bushings into the boltway

2. Run a piloted reamer through the boltway to ensure that it is concentric and straight so that the boltway acts as a datum for all other processes

3. On tapered bushings, put a piloted cutter into the receiver to remove the crests of the receiver threads and square up the locking surfaces in the receiver

4. Run a piloted tap into the receiver. This cuts the receiver threads slightly oversized (.010") parallel and concentric with the datum

5. Fit a custom oversized bolt into the receiver. Check locking lug bearings and lap if required

6. Lock the receiver onto a mandrel and grind between centres. At the very least clean up the lower 180 degrees and the front face of the receiver

7. When barrelling use a precision ground and parallel recoil lug

I've had various people bring rifles into the workshop that their suppliers had claimed were 'blueprinted'. They still had the factory barrels and bolts and the only nod towards modification were tweaked triggers and re-crowned muzzles. Either someone hasn't a clue or is pulling the wool over the eyes of people new to shooting,

Alan

#5 dannywayoflife

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:48 PM

What's the heavyest barrel a blueprinted remmy action can support Alan?
The US military seem to make pretty good sniper systems out of the remmy

#6 Gunsgobang88

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:42 PM

What's the heavyest barrel a blueprinted remmy action can support Alan?
The US military seem to make pretty good sniper systems out of the remmy

Hi,

Yes, but for historical reasons. 'Sniper accurate' is not the same as real precision, how many top flight F Class or benchrest shooters use or indeed win with M700's? Don't get me wrong, I import, sell, modify and use M700's but there are better designs of custom and production actions if you wish to support a heavy barrel and maintain rigidity and therefore the integrity of bedding and bearing surfaces. If you get the chance read Otteson's books on the bolt action where he makes a detailed analyis of the strengths and weaknesses of various designs,

Cheers

Alan

#7 dannywayoflife

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

Cheers for that Allan I'll keep an eye out for a copy of that. Personally I'm a bit of a fan of the tikka action. KRG did a good article on the pros and cons of the T3 action which was an interesting read.
Danny

#8 dannywayoflife

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:39 PM

Ronny I've read that the barrel tenion on the T3 is significantly longer also so obviously it can support heavy barrels better.

#9 dannywayoflife

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:13 PM

Heres the article by KRG
http://www.kineticre...he Tikka T3.pdf

#10 ejg223

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:17 PM

My take, the barrel holds ~90% of the cartridge, action only ~10%
a few % action stiffness back or forth are not as important as a decent barrel.
edi

#11 Gunsgobang88

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:31 PM

I wouldn't know about that, I am not a gunsmith, I just look at the two actions and the Tikka looks a stronger action to me being more enclosed. In addition I have a bit of a soft spot for Tikka's, I have had 3 different factory T3's in different calibers and they have all given me sub 0.5" 5 shot groups consistently.

I know a lot of great semi custom rifles have been made using Remington actions, but I have not heard of many original factory Remington rifles giving 5 shot sub 0.5" groups.

Hi,

Only the better (and more expensive) models of the M700 give consistent accuracy. By that I mean every rifle off the line, not the odd example. The standard M700 that sells in the UK for under £1000 does not have the attention to detail, fit, care over chambering etc. that the more expensive models have. This would probably be denied by Remington but it is a question of economics and production costs. For several years I have been quietly importing and selling the M700 5R Milspec Stainless Steel Special. Originally available in .308 only, they are now being made in .223 and .300 Win. Mag. These are un-catalogued models and have a limited distribution in the US. Feed them quality ammunition and they will ALL shoot sub .5 moa. Many users (myself included) have achieved .3 moa.

I would agree that the Tikka T3 is inherently the more rigid action that is only handicapped by having a single action length and a small selection of after market parts, although this is changing. 'You pays your money and takes your choice', this forum and the shooting world in general would be a very boring place if we all had the same opinions and used the same rifles!

Cheers

Alan

#12 baldie

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

More match winning rifles have been built on remington 700 actions, than any other action ever made, and at the very top level of competition....but you have to look to the states to see them. They are an easy way into competition over there, because of their lower costs. Indeed, they are the pioneers of the blueprinted semi custom rifle. However, as Alan says, there are remmy,s and remmy,s. I will always buy in the older guns, because the actions were simply better. I have 3 in now which were fairly old 22-250,s....have done very little, and trued up with a minimium of work. They will be built up into some short tactical guns very shortly. These are better quality than the SPS etc that today forms the entry level into the range. Remington have made some exceptional actions like the 40X etc, and also the 5R models, and these really do shoot.You also have to remember that the T3 was built as an answer to the states telling Tikka, they wanted a $500 gun. Thus the T3 was born.

My blueprints include.
1. Square reciever face.
2. Square internal bolt abbutments
3. Recut the reciever threads bigger, thus truing them in the process.
4. Recut the bolt lugs then lap in to the reciever.
5. Recut the bolt face.
6. polish the bolt rails.
7. polish the ejector and shorten spring if required.
8. Use an oversize custom ground recoil lug.

I dont shim bolts, nor fit PTG custom bolts anymore, because the cost is prohibitive, and i can supply a true custom action cheaper, generally.

This is what i consider the minimum work required to be considered blueprinted.

Like Alan, i see a heck of a lot of rifles which people have paid for to be blueprinted, and simply are not. Usually the lugs have been lapped in, that is all. You cannot blueprint an action and retain the standard barrel. You can do 75% of the truing work, which i tend to call "accurising" but it isn,t a true blueprint.

I get very angry when i see people ripped off like this. Any gunsmith worth his salt can spot a blueprinted action purely by looking at the bolt first.

I worked on at least 6 remingtons last year which people had paid to be blueprinted...they hadn,t. All from the same place.

Quite simply....its fraud.

Fully blueprinted reciever and bolt. Note where the fresh machining is. Also note the 2 dark patches on the bolt abbutments....these are where the bolt lugs have been lapped in and are contacting 100%.
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Bolt being set up to machine bolt face, front and rear of lugs.
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